http://forum.rickross.com/list.php?7 EN Thu, 19 Nov 2009 20:09:37 +0100 Thu, 19 Nov 2009 20:09:37 +0100 Abusive and Controlling Relationships Phorum 5.1.25 60 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?7,65089,78839#msg-78839 daddylonglegs
ditto]]> Abusive and Controlling Relationships http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?7,65089,78839#msg-78839 Thu, 19 Nov 2009 20:09:37 +0100 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?7,65089,78824#msg-78824 brainwashed
Maybe this is becayse most other cults out there have all killed themselves. Maybe because some of them are already established as cults in the main stream religious circles. Maybe because this cult is somehow more interesting than others. I dont know. 21.000+ views. Almost 10 times that of any other. I find that to be quite a thing, and i think it says a lot.]]> Abusive and Controlling Relationships http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?7,65089,78824#msg-78824 Thu, 19 Nov 2009 04:43:35 +0100 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?7,65089,78822#msg-78822 brainwashed
concerned doesnt sound half as "fiery" as Sallie does, again and again.

If it wasnt for concerned right now she would be posting more of her "I just had a brainstorm" nonsense and the 1 2 3 4 5 garbage. I think its quite a good conversation and if nothing else at least it makes sense and is a bit funny.

Sallie has made many rude comments about almost everyone on this thread. Go ahead and take a look at all of her posts and see who really is inflammatory and mean spirited. Concerned is not championing GC, just stating that he was a victim. Gary was definitely a victim if ever there was a victim of this group (not to say he was the only one, far from it) Just because he is now the "go to guy" or whatever he is does not mean that he was not victimized. Take Michael Jackson as an example. Because he may have victimized children make him any less of a victim of abuse by his rechid father? It was that abuse that made him who he was. Same with GC.]]> Abusive and Controlling Relationships http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?7,65089,78822#msg-78822 Thu, 19 Nov 2009 04:30:58 +0100 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?7,65089,78820#msg-78820 My Good Name
The cult is set up like a pyramid.
[center]-Gary (The Leader)-[/center]
[center]--Elders and one David (a person who thinks they will be a king when the messiah comes)--[/center]
[center]--------------The Clan Heads who are people in charge of one to several families---------------------[/center]
[center]-------------------------------------------------The People----------------------------------------------------------[/center]

There also exists a group of "priests" that were picked by JH to spread the doctrine. They have no real power or say in what goes on even though they were told they would.]]> Abusive and Controlling Relationships http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?7,65089,78820#msg-78820 Thu, 19 Nov 2009 04:14:56 +0100 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?7,65089,78819#msg-78819 Confused7609 Abusive and Controlling Relationships http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?7,65089,78819#msg-78819 Thu, 19 Nov 2009 04:14:16 +0100 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?7,65089,78818#msg-78818 brainwashed Everyone on here IS being watched (ie posts being read) because this forum is public, and known and commented about by people involved in this group. That is no secret. Don't see where the veiled threat is. The "Watchers" that Hickman talked about are aliens/fallen angels- and are our enemies, as they know our every thought, and try to put thoughts in our heads to lead us down the wrong path. Another absurd teaching of this cult that is just another way to make people think they are always under attack, and therefor need to be extra vigilant in their obedience to "The Way". There is a lot of paranoia in this group. Children are taught from a young age that someday the entire world will be against them and that there will be persecution because of who they are (ie. descendants of Jesus, etc).
There are also many levels of "in". Since this is not an organized group the way it seems to have been in the 70-80's, there is no member roster or anything like that. You are considered "in" unless you are "left-sided" meaning you do something to get yourself kicked out. Most people who are "left-sided" are put there because they have decided to "leave" and made that known, or they quietly left, and someone finally figured out they were living a lifestyle not "approved" and they chose to continue it. You have people "inner-circle" I guess who are involved in every teaching/ activity, and you have people on the fringe whose parents are involved, but they hang-out around the edges, go to big get-togethers once in awhile, or barely at all.
In case the post wasn't actually read, when I mentioned law-enforcement, it was one of several carreers mentioned just to point out that people in this cult appear normal on the outside because they participate in general society, with several different professions. They blend-in unlike, say, the Amish or FDLS, or any of those groups who close themselves off to society and stand-out right away. What are they going to do? Pull you over and give you an extra ticket because maybe you wrote on this forum?
It is hard to miss how many people read this forum. I think it has more to do with the time period of this group (30+ years) and the number of people involved over the years (someone earlier on this thread said it was 1-2,000 at one point).[/quote]

This was great. Dead on.]]> Abusive and Controlling Relationships http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?7,65089,78818#msg-78818 Thu, 19 Nov 2009 03:36:56 +0100 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?7,65089,78813#msg-78813 rrmoderator
Very simple to determine.

Is there an elected board to fixed terms that can fire the pastor if they wish?

Is there a budget published that specfically discloses all salaries, compensation and expenses paid out from contributions?

Has the new leader denounced the abuses of the old leader?]]> Abusive and Controlling Relationships http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?7,65089,78813#msg-78813 Thu, 19 Nov 2009 02:51:34 +0100 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?7,65089,78810#msg-78810 Sparky
Sallie is NOT the topic of the thread and from what I have read, your postings are more and more firey (flame wise). You may or may not have a close personal friendship with Gary Coons, but don't try to champion someone whom others here have been apparently injured by.

Your input IS important.

Please take a deep breath and approach this from another angle. When Sallie posted the NOW FAMOUS R.R. laws of detecting a damaging/questionable cult/religion and you tried to turn it back on her and call her a "cult leader" is absurd and clearly you typed it in the heat of the moment and did not really mean to come across as being so mean-spirited.

Please try to be more respectful. Disagreement is encouraged here but hurtfulness is not.]]> Abusive and Controlling Relationships http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?7,65089,78810#msg-78810 Thu, 19 Nov 2009 02:09:26 +0100 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?7,65089,78809#msg-78809 Confused7609 Abusive and Controlling Relationships http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?7,65089,78809#msg-78809 Thu, 19 Nov 2009 01:49:54 +0100 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?7,65089,78807#msg-78807 rrmoderator
No.

I am pointing out the rules, which you agreed to before posting here.

And I have pointed out some common sense issues regarding group leadership and meaningful accountability.]]> Abusive and Controlling Relationships http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?7,65089,78807#msg-78807 Thu, 19 Nov 2009 00:16:21 +0100 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?7,65089,78804#msg-78804 Confused7609
When someone takes over a "cult" group after the leader dies and does not change the structure of the group functionally from totalitarian to democratic, which would include meaningful safeguards and accountability, the only thing that has really changed for practical purposes is essentially only the name of the leader.

If the new leader in any way participated in and/or covered up for the abuses of the dead leader, he or she rightfully shares in the blame and should be held accountable.[/quote]

Are you providing information or are you telling the victims of cult abuse and thought reform what to think? Will questioning you get someone "banned" from the message board? Put on the left, silenced?]]> Abusive and Controlling Relationships http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?7,65089,78804#msg-78804 Wed, 18 Nov 2009 22:55:53 +0100 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?7,65089,78802#msg-78802 rrmoderator
When someone takes over a "cult" group after the leader dies and does not change the structure of the group functionally from totalitarian to democratic, which would include meaningful safeguards and accountability, the only thing that has really changed for practical purposes is essentially only the name of the leader.

If the new leader in any way participated in and/or covered up for the abuses of the dead leader, he or she rightfully shares in the blame and should be held accountable.]]> Abusive and Controlling Relationships http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?7,65089,78802#msg-78802 Wed, 18 Nov 2009 22:43:53 +0100 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?7,65089,78801#msg-78801 Confused7609 Abusive and Controlling Relationships http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?7,65089,78801#msg-78801 Wed, 18 Nov 2009 22:41:27 +0100 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?7,65089,78800#msg-78800 rrmoderator
Personal attacks are against the rules.

Stop the flame war now.]]> Abusive and Controlling Relationships http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?7,65089,78800#msg-78800 Wed, 18 Nov 2009 22:39:24 +0100 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?7,65089,78799#msg-78799 Sallie You just referred to one of my favorite stories. The Emporers New Clothes. I refer to that very often. I really am interested and I mean that sincerely. Plese elaborate.]]> Abusive and Controlling Relationships http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?7,65089,78799#msg-78799 Wed, 18 Nov 2009 22:39:10 +0100 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?7,65089,78798#msg-78798 Confused7609 Abusive and Controlling Relationships http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?7,65089,78798#msg-78798 Wed, 18 Nov 2009 22:33:49 +0100 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?7,65089,78797#msg-78797 Sallie What do you know about me? Name one thing other than the fact that I believe this is an abusive cult which is presently lead by an abuser. What else? What else about my existence have I shared?
This is a cult./
A bad cult.
A cult which is led by a man named Gary Cooons who in corroboration with Jack HIckman scammed many people and is still scamming and deceiving.
I am not the topic of the thread.
My personal life has not been discussed nor is it the topic.
The topic is the cult originated by Jack Hickman and I have remained on topic.
t]]> Abusive and Controlling Relationships http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?7,65089,78797#msg-78797 Wed, 18 Nov 2009 22:33:25 +0100 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?7,65089,78796#msg-78796 Confused7609 Abusive and Controlling Relationships http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?7,65089,78796#msg-78796 Wed, 18 Nov 2009 22:31:57 +0100 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?7,65089,78795#msg-78795 Sallie How about duck duck goose. Is the ''leader'' of a duck duck goose game a manipulative sociopath?
Gary Coons is ''leading'' a dangerous cult.
If in fact I am ''leading'' a conversation which is designed to redefine him as a good guy and I am ''leading'' it in another direction.....so what.]]> Abusive and Controlling Relationships http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?7,65089,78795#msg-78795 Wed, 18 Nov 2009 22:28:52 +0100 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?7,65089,78794#msg-78794 Confused7609 Abusive and Controlling Relationships http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?7,65089,78794#msg-78794 Wed, 18 Nov 2009 22:26:59 +0100 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?7,65089,78793#msg-78793 Sallie Gary Coons is the leader of a cult and by every definition he is a dangerous leader of a dangerous cult.
The fact that professed active members will only post supportive statements of him adds to the 'warning signs' that this is in fact a man who has managed to frighten those men/women/'children who are now following him.]]> Abusive and Controlling Relationships http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?7,65089,78793#msg-78793 Wed, 18 Nov 2009 22:23:40 +0100 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?7,65089,78792#msg-78792 Sallie
1. Absolute authoritarianism without meaningful accountability.

2. No tolerance for questions or critical inquiry.

3. No meaningful financial disclosure regarding budget, expenses such as an independently audited financial statement.

4. Unreasonable fear about the outside world, such as impending catastrophe, evil conspiracies and persecutions.

5. There is no legitimate reason to leave, former followers are always wrong in leaving, negative or even evil.

6. Former members often relate the same stories of abuse and reflect a similar pattern of grievances.

7. There are records, books, news articles, or television programs that document the abuses of the group/leader.

8. Followers feel they can never be "good enough".

9. The group/leader is always right.

=================================================================
Confused,
I am a group leader??????????????????///
What is the name of my orgqnization? What do we do? How are we funded? You are forced to stay? I have made followers fear the outside world?
Other than Gary Coons being a bad cult leader....what have we discussed? What are my views about eating/sex/politics/education/child rearing??? How can I influence a life when the only opinion I have expressed is in regards to Gary Coons the leader of a cult?
The topic of this thread is abuses which occur and occured towards the followers of a cult which was originated by Jack HIckman and is now being led by Gary Coons.]]> Abusive and Controlling Relationships http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?7,65089,78792#msg-78792 Wed, 18 Nov 2009 22:18:37 +0100 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?7,65089,78791#msg-78791 Confused7609 Abusive and Controlling Relationships http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?7,65089,78791#msg-78791 Wed, 18 Nov 2009 22:18:14 +0100 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?7,65089,78790#msg-78790 Confused7609 Abusive and Controlling Relationships http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?7,65089,78790#msg-78790 Wed, 18 Nov 2009 22:13:13 +0100 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?7,65089,78789#msg-78789 Sallie I thought Jack Hickman had become outrageously confident in his lunacy when he calmly told parishioners that ''god told me to pass the seed''.
Now somehow his first born believes that every defensive post regarding his existence deserves respect?
RESPECT?
A depraved child abusing pervert wants those posts which are a defense of his cult to be respected????
Good Lord.
That is mind boggling stupidity. The kind of brazen stupidity that says ''we have law enforcement officers in this cult''.]]> Abusive and Controlling Relationships http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?7,65089,78789#msg-78789 Wed, 18 Nov 2009 22:10:39 +0100 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?7,65089,78788#msg-78788 Confused7609 Abusive and Controlling Relationships http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?7,65089,78788#msg-78788 Wed, 18 Nov 2009 22:10:21 +0100 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?7,65089,78786#msg-78786 Sallie What I do believe in, is freedom of expression and not having a leader on here, or a people who do not respect the different perspectives of others
==========================================================
Hear me.
This is not the back room of some secret organization.
I am under no obligation to RESPECT any opinions.
I am obliged to follow the rules of THIS forum and use respectful language.
Expressing a LACK OF RESPECT for the stories or life of Gary Coons is my right.
I have NO OBLIGATION TO DEMONSTRATE A CULT LIKE RESPECT FOR ANYTHING SAID ABOUT GARY COONS.]]> Abusive and Controlling Relationships http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?7,65089,78786#msg-78786 Wed, 18 Nov 2009 22:02:41 +0100 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?7,65089,78785#msg-78785 Confused7609 Abusive and Controlling Relationships http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?7,65089,78785#msg-78785 Wed, 18 Nov 2009 22:02:11 +0100 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?7,65089,78784#msg-78784 Sallie Who cares?
Really.
Who cares about Gary?
Does Fallen who referred to gang rape as a 'twisted teen thing' care?
Does Mygoodname who suggested that after thirty years memories of others being abused should be healed(aka forgotten) care?
Does Mytwoworlds who agreed with that...does he/she care?
Does Pequa who felt ''beat up'' by stories of past abuse care?
Does Incarnatesoul whose poetry/preaching reaks of ...''forget the past''....care?
Does Brainwashed care....you know...the one who said ''this forum is not yours'' and suggested I stop posting stories of the many victims I saw abused? Does he care?
How about you? You seem to have some bad feelings towards leadership with little consideration for the fact that those leaders may have been tricked. Do you care?
So who cares about Gary Coons?
Since nobody is dictating to Gary Coons how he should spend his time and since he is at the very least a millionaire we are safe in assuming that he has both time and money to spend on proffessional counseling.
Save the kleenex and point Gary Coons in the direction of a psychiatrist if he is wounded.
Now about the young adults and/or children in this cult?????
Do they have the time, resources and freedom to seek help as does Gary Coons?]]> Abusive and Controlling Relationships http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?7,65089,78784#msg-78784 Wed, 18 Nov 2009 21:54:51 +0100 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?7,65089,78783#msg-78783 Confused7609 Abusive and Controlling Relationships http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?7,65089,78783#msg-78783 Wed, 18 Nov 2009 21:42:35 +0100