Recovery from Destructive Cults and Groups

Re: Trumpet Call of God

frogla — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 16:00:22 +0100

Thanks Sparky! Yes, these destructive people have moved my husband up the ranks to get him more involved and more hooked. They are crafty, cunning, and evil. I think really the rescuing is up to God @ this point. However, I have contacted Bob but this person doesn't seem to want to respond right now. Trent never used to believe in other "scripture" besides the Holy Bible. It's no different then what the Muslims believe about the Koran or any other false religion.

Re: Trumpet Call of God

Sparky — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 02:21:24 +0100

Also, frogla, I have no new insights into this group but to say they are just another "end times" faith and appear to re-write the bible as it suits them (another typical move of a questionable religion).

bob is apparently well versed in following this group and may have more suggestions for you in regards to "rescueing" your husband, who now appears to be a mini-leader.

I would contact bob about this for any additional thoughts he may have.

Re: Trumpet Call of God

Sparky — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 16:29:17 +0100

frogla, all I can suggest for you is the read all the getting help links on this site:

http://www.rickross.com/help.html

From the transcripts above provided by bob, it seems they are an 'end times' religion (they expect the second coming any day now) and they are clearly anti-Trinity (most christian religions are based on the Trinity).

I'm sorry for you and your husband. Good luck and God bless.

Re: Recovering from Choices Counseling Center

Lady Pleiades — Fri, 13 Nov 2009 19:05:11 +0100

If anyone is interested, I would be happy to share my experience in filing the complaint with the state of Florida and with the American Counseling Association. As was told to me, these agencies are eager to hear legitimate complaints because those who flaunt ethics in their profession really cast a bad light on the whole field. I heard that from several different people: from psychologists to a sociology professor at UCF, a layperson at the church, others on this site, to the ethics board at the ACA itself... There are many good professionals out there. I know because I talked to them!

PM me and I can share my experience. The hardest part was that, if you were like me, you were still "under the influence" and mistrust every thought you have because, basically, you are a worthless POS unless you have been given absolution by MRT. You will regain your personal integrity and self-trust once you leave! You also need to stick close to some kind of recovery (basic AA) or caring therapist (think "unconditional positive regard") or friend...

Re: What books have helped you the most in cult recovery? ...

wendyjduncan — Fri, 13 Nov 2009 16:11:54 +0100

There are a lot of good books out there. I think reading is an important part of the healing process. My recommendations are Captive Hearts, Captive Minds, Recovery from Cults, Toxic Faith, Churches That Abuse, and of course, my book, I Can't Hear God Anymore: Life in a Dallas Cult.

Re: What kinds of churches do any of you go to?

wendyjduncan — Fri, 13 Nov 2009 16:07:39 +0100

Becoming part of a church is EXTREMELY difficult. We were lucky to find a laid-back, no pressure, church after we left our cult. It helped a lot in the healing process. I really had a need to worship God - something I had lost in the cult. We went to a liturgical church where the worship is laid out for you and I was able to begin to reconnect with God. Many times though something would trigger me and before I knew it, tears would be trickling down my face. I was embarrassed, but no one tried to do any touchy feeling stuff with me so I gradually was desensitized to the triggers.

I am much more sensitive to manipulation and spiritual abuse after my cult experience. Someone recently challenged a personal decision I made recently with the "What would Jesus do" question. I think if you want to ask that question to yourself, that's fine, but when you ask someone else, like me, it feels very manipulative. I am trying to develop healthy boundaries too.

My husband and I started a support group for former members of cults and spiritually abusive groups. I am amazed at the number of people who have had similar experiences. If you are in the Dallas area, you are welcome to come.

Re: Is anyone emotionally damaged

rrmoderator — Fri, 13 Nov 2009 15:19:28 +0100

See http://www.rickross.com/reference/books/reading_list.html

This reading list includes some books that can be helpful in recovery.

See http://www.rickross.com/recovery.html

This is the recovery subsection, which includes a directory of professional counseling resources.

Re: What kinds of churches do any of you go to?

recoveringtoo — Fri, 13 Nov 2009 04:32:52 +0100

I appreciate your efforts and courage to fit into a church with a different style after your experience. It was very hard to do myself. It has been an unexpected and slow process. I deconverted from Christianity and embraced psychology some but I returned to Christianity with an interfaith focus although still conservative. I do not embrace the traditional Christianity. The interfaith churches are very different than what I have experienced. I am appropiately criticial of doctrine but I do not argue it. I never did argue but I used to be heavily conflicted. I accept that everyone is free to believe what they wish and we are free in those churches to come to our own conclusions on many matters and I have not conflict with that. I accept a casual connection to the churches but my own beliefs and emotions about life and purpose hold more weight and are more important. It was very hard to get out of the mindset of being told what to believe.

I was told in the cult church that I wasn't allowed to leave and I owed them. I know what you mean about that.

Another church I did not join got angry when I did not fill out the visitor card. That was in Sea Isle City somewhere. I felt terrible when the pastor noticed that I shook my head about accepting the form to fill out and he started getting angry and say "we don't just let anyone in here off the street". It was a small room I was in and not many people so he noticed the interaction I had with his church member.

I now only want a casual connection to the church. My relationship with Jesus and others is deeper than what I think of my connection to the church. I have one church I will join but since it is not close by after I marry, my future husband and I will attend less often and I am fine with that.

Church is the only place where it seems to recreate a family kind of closeness. Of shared beliefs, goals, love and it is very triggering. The potential of being manipulated when you are vulnerable, young, idealistic is great I now realize. I am thankful that I have been able to develop healthy boundaries although I still have Generalized Anxiety Disorder it seems.

Re: Is anyone emotionally damaged

recoveringtoo — Fri, 13 Nov 2009 04:12:59 +0100

Regarding what? Regarding what kind of recovery has helped others for their anxiety.

I have already posted a couple of posts indicating I have been in a cult in my brief history.

Now I am posting in "Index -> Recovery from Destructive Cults and Groups" and have said I have suffered anxiety for over a decade.

I wonder what other psychological helps people have taken in their recovery.

Psychology CBT has helped me since I embraced psychology a couple of years ago. That took a long time for me to accept since it was forbidden in the churches I went to including the cult.

Diet and exercise, also greatly has helped.

I go to psychology support groups that have helped and interfaith churches also.

I am a nonreligious Christian. There is a "cult expert" near me who is a traditional christian. Since I am not that anymore, I would be incompatible to see that person. I am still conservative in way of behavior but I believe God loves everyone and His Spirit is in all people and I respect everyone.

I feel very guarded around people still. I am working with psychology materials and hope to make more progress.

Is anyone else into psychology, diet and exercise, interfaith churches?

Re: just escaped

Sparky — Fri, 13 Nov 2009 01:41:34 +0100

tracicherise,

You can catch more flies with honey than vinegar. Please be more kind to past members of your flock on this site. What people write of their experiences is not necessarily a personal attack on your parents or yourself.

As the daughter of the pastor you may or may not have been shielded from the experiences of the rank-and-file members.

This is a safe-zone for people to express themselves and their experiences. This site is closely moderatered (which is a good thing) and slanderous unfounded charges against an organization are not tolerated anymore than bullying against ex-members from group-members or group supporters ('apologists') attempting to silence dissent.

In my opinion, you came on a little strong on the ex-members and I would beg you to let them feel safe to voice their opinions. No organization can boast 100% in customer satisfaction.

I am interested in your awaited response to rrmoderator, however, in your answers to his queries:

QUOTE FROM RRMODERATOR:

What safeguards exist at New Harvest Christian Fellowship (NHCF) in Norwalk, CA?

Is there a democratically elected board, which serve fixed terms, that can discipline and if necessary fire the pastor?

Is there an independently audited financial statement that discloses in detail all the church finances, such as salaries, compensation and all expenses paid out from church funds?

Are such safeguards within the church bylaws?

Is there any denominational or a church federation that provides oversight?

UNQUOTE

Thank you in advance for your timely response...
Sparky

Re: just escaped

immps — Thu, 12 Nov 2009 19:14:47 +0100

There are no safe guards and they don't answer to anyone

Re: just escaped

rrmoderator — Thu, 12 Nov 2009 18:10:42 +0100

tracicherise:

Please don't post personal insults or engage in name calling here. This is prohibited by the rules you agreed to when you joined this message board.

Re: just escaped

rrmoderator — Thu, 12 Nov 2009 18:09:20 +0100

What safeguards exist at New Harvest Christian Fellowship (NHCF) in Norwalk, CA?

Is there a democratically elected board, which serve fixed terms, that can discipline and if necessary fire the pastor?

Is there an independently audited financial statement that discloses in detail all the church finances, such as salaries, compensation and all expenses paid out from church funds?

Are such safeguards within the church bylaws?

Is there any denominational or a church federation that provides oversight?

Re: just escaped

immps — Thu, 12 Nov 2009 17:52:36 +0100

hay thats sounds great and everything. but i went there for 15 years. and yes of couse you are going to say that, what dauter would not. you did not see everything. and i think its unfair to call someone a lier. am still a christain for craying out loud and what i say is the what happen to me. why would i make it up, an i dont think you can make something like that up. and plus spend my time doing it. i have also told my new pastor and leaders what happen and they also said that it was wrong and they twisting the Bible. i know the bible and know these things also. and ur wrong about them caring if u see people from otheir church, they mine alots to the point they tryed to stop me. what does that say. there are many people who have left there and also people in england who i still take to. this sit is for people to talk about what happen to them and not to be called liers. and i will still talk about it to otheirs and my friend who have also had a hard time there. thank you very much for your concern. but am better of with out help from people from your church thanks

Re: Is anyone emotionally damaged

rrmoderator — Thu, 12 Nov 2009 16:05:02 +0100

Regarding what?

How is it relevant to this message board?

Is anyone emotionally damaged

recoveringtoo — Thu, 12 Nov 2009 08:57:21 +0100

I have suffered severe anxiety for over a decade.

Re: just escaped

tracicherise — Thu, 12 Nov 2009 05:06:00 +0100

Okay to immps whoever you are LOL! This is pastor richard's daughter Traci. I don't know who you are and I would like to know but my church is so not controlling LOL! Okay nothing is kept behind closed doors clearly! They didn't tell us not to talk to other church's because I have friends from other church's okay and this is my parents we are talking about and they let me go to a calvery chappel youth service concert and they didn't even care seriously LOL! I do not know where you are getting this from?? I would like to know if you don't mind. They don't mind if you have non christian friends they just don't want you to be influenced I know I go to college and I have non christian friends and I'm not gonna lie it's hard but they just want you saved and serving God. We don't confuse you and our beliefs there is nothing confusing about it! Please tell me what's confusing. Ahahahaahaa!! I'm sorry I have to laugh about the we keep you under control and away from people who open your eyes hahahaa! Okay please tell me when and where?! Okay now as for the dating... The reason why it would go to the PATORS NOT LEADERS is so someone could hold you two accountable so you won't mess up and get pregnant or STD and I don't think you want that right? Now as for holding hands and kissing is because it opens the door for temptation to come in and make you want to have sex. Now if a leader told you you were leading them on then you should have gone to a pastor's wife and talked to them and told them what was going on they would have helped you. The last time I checked I didn't feel second class and all the women in there either... all the rules for dating makes you respect yourself and hold yourself in a high standard it's common sense really not to be mean you just have to really think about it. You don't want to sell yourself short to just any guy you know? Now I don't know who you've been hanging out with over there but if they were talking about people behind their backs then it's called new friends.. hey there is nothing wrong with that trust me LOL. Now if someone left the church and you still talk to them they don't care they just don't want them to influence you... you just have to becarefull that's all. Okay now.... if you date someone from a different church they don't care but if your having sex than yeah! LOL! I don't know which pastor you talked to but I'm very sorry if they did tell you off honestly I am I get told off all the time don't feel bad I'm not perfect trust me. I'm very sorry for whatever they supposably did wrong but I would appreciate it if you would not talk about my father and his church. It hurt me and broke my heart when I googled his name and had to see this. I am just asking for some respect for my family. You can contact me I don't mind and I won't do anything to upset you I would just like to talk and apologize. Thank you.

Traci Salazar

Re: just escaped

tracicherise — Thu, 12 Nov 2009 04:44:40 +0100

Hello I am Traci Salazar YOUR EX PASTOR'S DAUGHTER.... you know richard salazar from new harvest yah him. Okay first off MY CHURCH is not authoriative okay?! They follow the principles from the B.I.B.L.E you know what that is right?? Okay and the whole people escaping not wanting to tell their story yah it's because IT'S A LIIIEEEE! Alright that's why! Okay and you don't touch God's annointed it's in the bible dear alright. So if New Harvest was really that bad then.... wouldn't he have already exposed it???? Ahahaa! Okay now for the whole no accountability and all alright there are a board of chairmen there that actually do make decisions to oh yah and we have accountants and auditors who see all the books because YOU CHURCH PEOPLE love to talk so we make sure that everyone knows that companies get to see our books.. now you think that if you'd worked there for 8 years you would know that right?! Oh yah and we don't pay under minimum wage darling okay we pay minimum wage and OVER MINIMUM WAGE.... the only reason you probably made minimum wage was because you didn't finish high school but it's okay I'll forgive you for that and God will to hun okay okayyy and if it was so depressing you could have left! Many people come and go my parents are okay with it they don't care honestly. By the way congratulations for stopping us cause our attendance has grown since you've left... like the bible says.... "HE CLEANSE HOUSE, ONE WILL LEAVE AND I SHALL SEND TEN FOR IT'S PLACE" So thank you so much you've actually helped us instead of hurting us =D May God have mercy on you honestly and may he bring you to repentance and soften your heart. It hurts me and breaks my heart hearing you talk about my church and father like that and all we want is for respect. I ask that you will just move on and leave us alone, we don't talk about you and your parents so I would like for you to just respect us, you don't have to like us but respect us. I'm sorry if I or my family has done anything to you but please just leave us alone.

Traci Salazar

Re: What kinds of churches do any of you go to?

wendyjduncan — Tue, 10 Nov 2009 05:02:40 +0100

If you were in a pseudo Christian group or Bible-based group, you might want to consider going to a church totally opposite in style from the group you were involved in. My husband and I were in a Bible-based cult that tried to recreate first century Christianity. They met in homes for Bible studies and observed all of the Jewish feasts/fasts. It took a while, but we are now a part of a liturgical denomination, the Episcopal church. For most of us, church is very triggering. I recommend sitting at the back of the church and remember, you are free to leave at any time. It's ok not to fill out the visitor card. It's ok to maintain boundaries and build trust as it is merited.

be safe.

Re: Trumpet Call of God

wendyjduncan — Tue, 10 Nov 2009 04:55:53 +0100

Hi Bob,
Thanks for sharing this with us. It's hard for me to read it - some of it is triggering. What do you know about this group? Is it very big?

Re: Trumpet Call of God

bob — Mon, 09 Nov 2009 22:51:00 +0100

[color=#0033CC][b]Look at this meeting that went on and what Trent and Abir and Danlafave was talking about..............kinda read what I highlighted in red and you'll see some things that were said that may be a bit disturbing.....[/b][/color]

Trent Fuller: 10:45:07
while we are warming up ... there is something we aught to set out there about the studies
danlafave: 10:45:20
ready..
Art and Kathy: 10:45:35
go
Emily: 10:45:59
ok
Trent Fuller: 10:48:15
God passes the mic around to people so that they can sound off and share what is in their hearts ... the mic being the "floor" or whathave you when they are talking. And often it makes us think of 1000 things to say that goes with it ... but that is not always the best ... in fact it is hardly ever the best to shoot off 1000 things right in the middle of their point. So, lets remember those things to share by making mental notes or writing them down ... and when the Lord says "NOW is a good time for that" ... then share it or ask it or say it ... but wait for the "NOW" ... OK?
Amy: 10:48:39
Yep, Ok.
Trent Fuller: 10:48:43
Also
Amy: 10:48:46
Sounds good.
danlafave: 10:48:54
10-4
Emily: 10:48:57
k
Trent Fuller: 10:49:00
Take special attention to the verses and letter that come to mind
Trent Fuller: 10:49:12
We need more of scripture and less of us, ya know?
Amy: 10:49:25
Yep.
Suzanne Cornelius La Fave: 10:49:28
k
Emily: 10:49:37
yah
danlafave: 10:49:41
ok
Trent Fuller: 10:49:58
yall are the best
Trent Fuller: 10:50:01
one more thing
Art and Kathy: 10:50:23
we c
Trent Fuller: 10:51:14
if you want to get something out there to the person that has the floor, but afraid to interrupt their stream of thought ... it is best to doubleclicktheir names from the list above and open a side-window chat ... to give them something away from the main window
Trent Fuller: 10:51:35
that is a way to keep the message coherent for those that are going to read it later
danlafave: 10:51:57
thanks for the info
Amy: 10:52:03
OK Trent.
Trent Fuller: 10:52:17
it is nice if the flow is sensible when we email this out to people, right?
Art and Kathy: 10:52:18
(y)
Amy: 10:52:40
So are you saying to use the side windows for study stuff, but perhaps not to use the side window for side chatter during the study?
Lauren Pyatt: 10:52:43
is this a call
Lauren Pyatt: 10:52:43
hello
Amy: 10:52:59
No, Lauren... no audio on Mondays or Thursdays.
Trent Fuller: 10:53:02
My preliminary findings are that these Bible Studies are awesome
Trent Fuller: 10:53:26
What up LP?
Timothy: 10:53:52
bk
Lauren Pyatt: 10:54:03
well i have to work in 30 minutes but i dont wanna go
Timothy: 10:54:07
let get this party started
Timothy: 10:54:13
(party)
danlafave: 10:54:26
rdy
Timothy: 10:54:29
ummm
Timothy: 10:54:50
I have to kkindly disagree with side windows
Timothy: 10:56:08
I feel side chats are disrespectful to the teacher who is heeding the leading of THEE TEACHER and maybe a distraction, unless the Lord has commanded it or it is an emergency
Timothy: 10:57:05
this I know from the Lord as I have been corrected of the Lord for being a sidewindow person
danlafave: 10:58:01
so stick to the study and hold q.'s until approiate to advance them?
Timothy: 10:58:08
so plz get a notepad and write your questions down or thoughts then plz yes bring them up at the time trent asks for them
Timothy: 10:58:10
:)
Suzanne Cornelius La Fave: 10:58:11
btw, i have a doctor apt and may just leave and will read later - just a 411 to all
Timothy: 10:58:30
ok
danlafave: 10:59:32
well, lets go!
Timothy: 11:01:18
any questions regarding study etiquette
Timothy: 11:01:35
:)
Art and Kathy: 11:01:56
no sir
Emily: 11:02:00
So basically, quiet until the "NOW"
Emily: 11:02:01
?
Timothy: 11:02:09
yep :)
Art and Kathy: 11:02:13
yep
Timothy: 11:04:14
Trent?
Trent Fuller: 11:04:27
hi
Trent Fuller: 11:04:31
Lets pray
Timothy: 11:04:35
yes
Trent Fuller: 11:04:47
Father, You proved Your love and it has saved us
Trent Fuller: 11:05:07
Now we bask in the ever-encreasing grace of Your Spirit and blessing
Trent Fuller: 11:05:12
blessing to worship and praise
Trent Fuller: 11:05:18
blessing to know and understand
Trent Fuller: 11:05:30
blessing to share and encourage and SHOUT Your name
Trent Fuller: 11:05:38
Thank You for Jesus ... Yahushua
Trent Fuller: 11:05:49
Thank You for loveing us and redeeming us from the curse.
Trent Fuller: 11:05:56
We are so grateful and we worship You.
Trent Fuller: 11:06:05
What shall we do, but listen and obey?
Trent Fuller: 11:06:08
Thank You.
Trent Fuller: 11:06:10
(join)
Timothy: 11:06:22
Lord we worship You
Jay&Beth!: 11:06:25
You are Holy!
Timothy: 11:06:30
for You alone are worthy
danlafave: 11:06:42
thanks be to You YAHWEH
Timothy: 11:06:43
and we pray for these with heavy hearts
Jay&Beth!: 11:06:52
Your ways are above our ways. Help us in our weakness. Be our strength and our Righteousness.
Timothy: 11:07:05
Lord we want our gaze to be fixed on You
Art and Kathy: 11:07:13
we humbly thank You for this beautiful NEW day...
Timothy: 11:07:13
teach us your ways
Timothy: 11:07:28
show us how to trust and then walk in Your paths
Jay&Beth!: 11:07:29
Nourish our starving limbs, may we abide in You, the Vine
Timothy: 11:07:54
and especially how to ALWAYS run to you when we stumble
Timothy: 11:08:28
You are LORD
Timothy: 11:08:33
Lord of All
Timothy: 11:08:41
LORD of lords
Timothy: 11:08:52
THE All in All
Jay&Beth!: 11:09:02
You are our Helper and Comforter
Timothy: 11:09:05
Let this kknowledge fill our hearts
Jay&Beth!: 11:09:07
We love you!
Timothy: 11:09:09
our veins
Art and Kathy: 11:09:18
You are the Perfect One, in whom we can put all our trust
Timothy: 11:09:18
let it run throughout our whole being
Lauren Pyatt: 11:09:27
YahuShua be with me
Lauren Pyatt: 11:10:07
cleanse our homes. build our faith
jrtrussell: 11:10:12
Oh Lord, fix my eyes upon You
Timothy: 11:10:16
For only real peace comes from kknowing that YOU ARE WHO YOU ARE and YOU ARE LORD
Timothy: 11:10:51
and true worship comes from giving You all thanks
Timothy: 11:11:23
and deep trust is saying "Amen... Your will be done"
Timothy: 11:11:35
and all this because of Love
Timothy: 11:11:47
unfathonable love
Timothy: 11:11:56
which is only found in You oh Lord
danlafave: 11:12:05
Lord, what more can we say, You know our hearts, our thoughts, and know of the thanks we have and give to You Alone, amen
Timothy: 11:13:27
oh Eternal King... The Lord My Righteousness...
Timothy: 11:13:38
there is no other WAY
Timothy: 11:13:48
there is Life in NO other
Timothy: 11:14:02
You alone are Righteous and True
Timothy: 11:14:10
and loving and holy
Timothy: 11:15:10
Lord I am sorry for my stumblings, yet I thankk You beyond words for letting me become desperate for You... my one comsuming passion
Emily: 11:15:24
Oh yes Lord.....
Timothy: 11:15:58
Oh Lamb... My Lord and my God
Timothy: 11:16:12
You died.... so we may live
Timothy: 11:16:27
not just any life... but with Your Life
Timothy: 11:16:36
in Your presence
Timothy: 11:16:44
come and marry us
Timothy: 11:16:50
we wait for You
danlafave: 11:17:05
yes, Our King!!
Timothy: 11:17:14
MARANATHA!
Timothy: 11:18:07
In Your name we say let it be so... COME!... The Lord OUR Righteousness Reigns!... Your will be done.... Thank You.... Thank You... Thank You
Timothy: 11:18:10
Amen.
Timothy: 11:18:13
and amen
Abir: 11:18:17
amen
Trent Fuller: 11:18:23
amen
Amy: 11:18:23
Amen.
Art and Kathy: 11:18:30
AMEN...
danlafave: 11:18:36
Amen
Abir: 11:18:38
thank you so much Adonai
Trent Fuller: 11:18:42
guys
Abir: 11:18:47
and gals
Trent Fuller: 11:18:50
we have some LETTERS
Jay&Beth!: 11:18:52
Amen
Trent Fuller: 11:19:08
some beautiful letters
Trent Fuller: 11:19:14
from God
Trent Fuller: 11:19:17
nd His Christ
Trent Fuller: 11:19:30
Let me paste em
jrtrussell: 11:19:50
Amen
Abir: 11:20:06
The Lord is so awesome
Trent Fuller: 11:20:09
amen
Trent Fuller: 11:20:30
'ok this is long so lets give some time to read it and then comment that you are done reading ... ok?
Abir: 11:20:31
hey amy is that supposed to be a pic of God's glory on ur display?
Trent Fuller: 11:20:38
The Word of My Mouth
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11/3/09 From God The Father and Jesus The Christ, YahuShua HaMashiach, Our Lord and Savior - A Letter Given to Timothy, For Craig Called Daniel, And For All Those Who Have Ears to Hear

Thus says The Lord God: There are those who have come and endeavor to seat themselves at My table, who resist My word in The Volumes, wanting to hear My Word but at the same time refusing My Word spoken to this generation... My people shall live by faith and walk in that which was given them already; and pay close attention to, giving ear and obeying, that which I also speak presently, even that which is at hand and given for this generation. For that spoken, at present, shall be put first; and that which is contained in The Letters of Truth shall be foremost and brought to the front, for all to behold. Not that this Word is at all superior; neither shall it be considered inferior to My Word found in The Scriptures of Truth. My Word is My Word... Both are Scriptures and Truth. And that, spoken in the hearing of My prophets, was written and spoken to the generation in which it was received, for all to hear... Whether they would hear or whether they would forebear. And as it was in all times past, where I had spoken to My servants, the prophets, and they in turn both wrote and spoke aloud, saying, �Thus says The Lord�, so it is at this time... Even at the end of this age, which has come upon you. That, which is put forth of My mouth, is foremost, and shall not be put second to My Word spoken aforetime; neither is one made a foundation for the other, as though the Word proceeding from My own mouth was in need of anything to uphold it; nor is any other witness required to prove My Word as My own, when I, Myself, have spoken it...

My Word stands...

And is known of those who are Mine and among those in whom I dwell.

Therefore, let My present Word be shown to be in full agreement with My former Word.

For it is in perfect agreement with My Word as it was...
Yet runs straight in comparison to that which men have made crooked.

Here is wisdom few have come to consider, nor have they understood: If one who confesses Me, yet remains dull in hearing and lacking in discernment, for his eyes remain dim and hard of seeing, let him test My Word by My Word only... For any test done outside My Word, or done according to the word of men, shall fail and be found as contempt before The Lord, for I sit as judge. For you have failed to see that My Word in The Volumes, also being called The Letters, is also a rod by which the translations of men are to be tested, and a light which shines on the doctrines of men to expose them, revealing them to be blasphemies and heresies before God... Which shall burn in the Day, when the fire comes to test the quality of each man�s works.

Therefore, if one professing faith be wise,
He shall humble himself before Me and call upon The Holy One for knowledge,
In where all understanding flows to the truly contrite and penitent,
Flowing in pure testimony, without any shadow of turning or corruption...

And by this only can one be wise in the reading...

Comparing that which was given with that which is put forth once again,
Discerning The Source and The Author to be the same...

One Word, One Book, One On-going Testament to My Glory...

By no means should it be divided into three, says The Lord.

Behold... My Words shall never pass away...

For as I am, so also is My Word, for it proceeds from Me,
Being manifest by He who is True, also being called The Word... Living...

Always feeding His flock the Word, which is written for their nourishment,
Which is to be received through that part of Himself, which is also in Me...

The Spirit called Holy, which speaks to the truth of who I am,
Glorifying He who I sent to you, who bears My name and reveals My glory in Himself,
Even as I am glorified through Him...
His glory being the same I own...

For We are One from the beginning, yet manifest as two in the earth...
So those, whom I have chosen, may know Me and come to Me and receive life...
Returning to, and being fulfilled in, the paradise of God, which is in His Kingdom and His Son.

I am The Lord...

And those, who have received of Me,
Testify that The Holy One, called Christ and Jesus, is The Lord of Heaven and earth...

ADONAI YahuShua HaMashiach is He to whom all the peoples of the earth shall bow...

Even all things shall give Him glory, calling Him Lord...

The only Faithful and True Witness...

The One Eternal King, who is and was, and is to come...

The Almighty...

Give Him all glory.

Therefore Craig, Daniel, you shall teach this Sabbath, and the next, and a third time as I command you: You shall pray and make for yourself an outline, and follow it... Not according to the hearers, but according to the Head, which I am. You shall prepare three studies in one accord, three studies containing My Word in The Letters only. And from the Volumes only shall you gather knowledge with which you shall feed this flock, who have come to sit at My table on The Lord�s day. For I have spoken to this generation, and that which I have uttered shall be brought to the head of the table and distributed... Even as I am the Head of My own table. And all good things both come from, and are distributed through Me... The Faithful and True Witness.

I am The Lord and I change not. Therefore, I will do nothing until I have made My plans known to all My servants, the prophets, where then I shall also call them My friends... The very same whom I have set up, who have become My beacons at the end of this age, who also will be MY shepherds in the Day of darkness and heavy sorrows. They will endure and can not be turned aside, for they will continue until their days are fulfilled... Then I shall come upon the clouds, with great power and glory.

In that day, the whole earth shall tremble at My presence
And be shaken by the word of My mouth...

Behold, even the rocks shall cry out,
And every living creature shall break out with a great noise and give Me glory...

Even the mountains and all high places shall be brought down
And bow before The King who has come...

He has returned to judge in righteousness...
And to restore His Kingdom by the power and majesty of His vesture...

For I am The King of Glory... The Righteous One of God!

The time has come!...

Prepare and watch.

The Holy One shall shout and reap His harvest,
He shall also return in all His glory...

And by His authority He shall make an end.

Behold a new day...

His rest...

One thousand years.
Timothy: 11:24:13
(*everyone... Amy and I are here, but not here... The Lord wants us to continue working on new Letters...so have a blessed study!.... we love you all (h) (wave) )
Abir: 11:24:28
(we love you too)
danlafave: 11:26:34
yes, me too and ...done
Trent Fuller: 11:27:33
Can you summarize the Letter in a simple sentence or two?
danlafave: 11:27:52
yes
Emily: 11:27:55
who?
Abir: 11:27:59
The Lord who speak to Ezequiel, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Daniel, John, is the SAME one speaking to us today.
Art and Kathy: 11:28:35
You all have a wonderful day!
danlafave: 11:28:43
craig is to teach from the "Letters" as the doctrine of men is fraught with "poison"
Art and Kathy: 11:28:55
You all have a wonderful day!
danlafave: 11:29:20
men tryingto insert their own meanings into the Word
Emily: 11:29:23
Living Word, Word in the Letters, Word in the Bible....in that order. He IS the author of ALL. Letters are first now, over the Bible.
Trent Fuller: 11:29:55
i like your summaries
danlafave: 11:29:58
great job Em
Abir: 11:30:07
Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever. - Hebrews 13:8
�For I, Jehovah, change not . . .� Malachi 3:6
Jay&Beth!: 11:31:29
Men have corrupted the Scriptures of Truth in various Bibles through uninspired translation... Rather than using English Bible Translations as a measuring stick to judge the Letters, we ought to recognize the Spirit behind the Letters and use them to judge/discern the translations of men.
Trent Fuller: 11:31:33
Either Tim, Jayse, Beth and Jim are conspiring to write a fraudulent doctrinal book, or God is writing it and if God is wrting it then under no circumstance is it second fiddle to anything written before amen?
Jay&Beth!: 11:32:03
amen
Emily: 11:32:07
amen
jrtrussell: 11:32:09
Oh that we might humble ourselves and wait with all eagerness to hear and search and see from Him that the columes of letters are TRUE
danlafave: 11:32:25
amen
jrtrussell: 11:32:46
humble and penitant man will see as he ask The Lord
[color=#FF0000][b]Abir: 11:32:55
Hes showing us that through the Letters He also clarifies The Word in the Bible
Trent Fuller: 11:33:01
Yes
Abir: 11:33:26
because of the mistranslations and biased translations, through The Letters, God is helping us filter out the mistranslations and the biases
Trent Fuller: 11:33:32
What are some of the things that were clarified in YOUR minds by reading the Letters over and against how men have taught you to read the Bible?
Abir: 11:33:33
and leading us to the purity of The Doctrine of Christ
Abir: 11:33:37
wich was not His own doctrine
Abir: 11:33:39
but of Our Father
jrtrussell: 11:33:42
Hell
danlafave: 11:33:56
death
Trent Fuller: 11:34:07
Soul sleep (Today, you will be with me in paradise (note the comma))
Trent Fuller: 11:34:15
Law and Grace
danlafave: 11:34:16
baptism
Suzanne Cornelius La Fave: 11:34:19
men's holidays vs. his holy days
Abir: 11:34:20
I say to you today,
Jay&Beth!: 11:34:21
Rapture
Abir: 11:34:25
you will be with me in paradise
Trent Fuller: 11:34:37
innocence of children over the doctrine of original sin
Abir: 11:34:39
Hes leading us back to The Way
jrtrussell: 11:34:55
how to hear from Him....voice of truth
Trent Fuller: 11:34:55
The rapture is before the tribulation
Jay&Beth!: 11:35:00
who is in heaven currently
danlafave: 11:35:01
the true sabbath, and men's holidays
Jay&Beth!: 11:35:02
resurrections
Suzanne Cornelius La Fave: 11:35:14
those that sleep
Trent Fuller: 11:35:15
but after a great 3 years of trouble in the last ten days of sorrow
Trent Fuller: 11:35:28
Sabbath, sabbath and more sabbath
Trent Fuller: 11:35:34
Yes
danlafave: 11:35:36
Elijah, moses
danlafave: 11:35:43
yahushua
jrtrussell: 11:35:43
Oh Lord, thank You soooooomuch for revealing these TRUE doctrines
Trent Fuller: 11:35:47
assurance of salvation
Abir: 11:35:48
Ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein."
danlafave: 11:35:57
Yahushua and the Father
Suzanne Cornelius La Fave: 11:35:58
the truth about tabernacles - being bold
Trent Fuller: 11:36:01
Yes
Trent Fuller: 11:36:04
the Holy Spirit
Abir: 11:36:07
How powerful the effect of God's Grace and Christ's Sacrifice really is
Trent Fuller: 11:36:12
Trinity?
Trent Fuller: 11:36:15
Amen
Trent Fuller: 11:36:19
That is a powerful list
Abir: 11:36:19
trini-what?
Suzanne Cornelius La Fave: 11:36:23
no trinity
Trent Fuller: 11:36:26
right
Abir: 11:36:31
amen to that
Abir: 11:36:37
only One God
Trent Fuller: 11:36:37
powerful
Abir: 11:36:41
and One Lord
[color=#FF0000][b]Trent Fuller: 11:36:42
I have a question
Abir: 11:36:58
someone here might have an answer
Trent Fuller: 11:37:08
Why is it OK to be unbalanced and share exclusively from the Letters?
Abir: 11:37:29
is it really ok?
Suzanne Cornelius La Fave: 11:37:29
?- smaller words please
Abir: 11:37:32
shouldnt we do both?
Abir: 11:37:40
the Letters and The Bible?
jrtrussell: 11:37:54
HE IS ALIVE!!! HE IS TEACHING US EVEN TODAY!!!! AMEN?
Abir: 11:37:56
can u serve someone a glass of water without the glass?
danlafave: 11:38:02
it is not unbalanced in view of the fact that men have transalted the original bible into their own beliefs, and the leters stand by themselves
danlafave: 11:38:10
letters*
Art and Kathy: 11:38:13
everybody, if you don't hear from us for awhile...our computer is really acting up,,
Abir: 11:38:29
but that doesnt mean EVERY bible translation is messed up
Abir: 11:38:40
there are some pretty accurate translations
Abir: 11:38:43
especially now
Emily: 11:38:47
When it is time, I have a question
Suzanne Cornelius La Fave: 11:38:57
be careful what translation is read
Trent Fuller: 11:39:09
Personally, it is fine to be unbalanced
Abir: 11:39:09
even tho most of the people like to stick to the poorly translated and biased translation of old king jimmy
danlafave: 11:39:17
yes, Abir, but some parts cloud the intent of what the Father had to say
Trent Fuller: 11:39:42
Only an unbalanced approach will PROVIDE balance to all the people that are already pumping exclusively the Bible
danlafave: 11:40:07
"the Rod with which to be measured by"
Suzanne Cornelius La Fave: 11:40:20
they first have to have eyes that see and ears that hear.....
Trent Fuller: 11:40:31
Plus, this is for NOW ... this generation ... it is first!
Trent Fuller: 11:40:44
amen
Suzanne Cornelius La Fave: 11:40:55
love to all, have to roll out, and will read more later
Trent Fuller: 11:40:59
Emily had a question ... lets let her ask it
danlafave: 11:40:59
Em has Q.
Trent Fuller: 11:41:03
(adios S)
Emily: 11:41:30
Just wanted to know then...is this only for Craig on his studies,or shall we now no longer post verses here too? Just curious...
Trent Fuller: 11:41:47
The Lord will guide you
Trent Fuller: 11:41:52
:-)
Abir: 11:41:53
amen
Abir: 11:41:57
cuz i just felt it
Abir: 11:42:22
i feel i just felt like He wants me to do both
Abir: 11:42:36
and i been feeling lately He wants me to really really really read and study The Bible
Trent Fuller: 11:43:09
As for me, I'll be leaning more on Letters than the Bible taking into account the Lords guidence to Craig and see if He wants me to be more open to Bible sharing
Trent Fuller: 11:43:50
Don't underestimate God's ability to work in you to want to do something and also work to become disinterested in something even often the same two somethings
Trent Fuller: 11:44:42
Also
Trent Fuller: 11:45:23
Look at it more like God wants a positive thing added so that there won't be as much time for the other thing that is done which is less relevant to current doings
Trent Fuller: 11:45:54
um having a hard time explaining that
Abir: 11:46:09
are u saying
jrtrussell: 11:46:13
I can't explain, but this Letter means so much to me.
Abir: 11:46:14
that the bible is less relevant?
Emily: 11:46:23
I understand that, but the Bible is not so much "less relevant", especially certain passages....
Emily: 11:46:39
They are all His Word
Trent Fuller: 11:46:58
Is the book of Esther more or less relevant to us than the Letters? Is the Letters more or less relevant to those that lived during Esther's time?
Art and Kathy: 11:47:06
God's Truth remains His Truth, always a
Trent Fuller: 11:47:54
What was the MOST relevant thing to share with God's people in the time of Jerimiah?
Abir: 11:47:59[/color]i think we should just really pay attention
Trent Fuller: 11:48:04[/b]the book of Job?[/color]
Emily: 11:48:06
Trent, His current Word
Abir: 11:48:06
to what the letter said
Abir: 11:48:10
[11:15:03 AM] Trent Fuller: Not that this Word is at all superior; neither shall it be considered inferior to My Word found in The Scriptures of Truth. My Word is My Word... Both are Scriptures and Truth.

<<<
Abir: 11:48:24
that means niether is less or more relevant
Abir: 11:48:28
they are both just as relevant
Trent Fuller: 11:48:29
relevent doesn't imply superiority
Trent Fuller: 11:48:36
nope
Jay&Beth!: 11:48:40
Yea, they are two different meanings
Abir: 11:48:44
they both hold the truth
Trent Fuller: 11:48:49
yes
Trent Fuller: 11:48:52
but
Abir: 11:49:07
hmmmm
Trent Fuller: 11:49:08
[11:42:18 AM] Trent Fuller: What was the MOST relevant thing to share with God's people in the time of Jerimiah?

<<<
Emily: 11:49:25
[12:38:14 PM] Emily: Trent, His current Word

<<<
Abir: 11:49:28
ok
Abir: 11:49:32
thats true
Abir: 11:49:35
i over looked that
jrtrussell: 11:49:36
that he was going to destroy Israel
Trent Fuller: 11:49:46
Should Jerimiah regret that He didn't preach from the book of Job enough?[/b]Jay&Beth!: 11:49:47
relevant - bearing upon or connected with the matter in hand
Abir: 11:49:48
now i see
jrtrussell: 11:49:53
and to repent and turn themselves over to the King of Babylon
Jay&Beth!: 11:49:59
higher in station, rank, degree, importance, etc.: a superior officer.
Trent Fuller: 11:50:03
Was Jerimiah unbalanced?
Abir: 11:50:09
I think thats why The Lord had me listen to the book of Ezequiel
Abir: 11:50:21
to show me that the same Lord speaking to Timothy and telling him what to write
jrtrussell: 11:50:21
WORD FOR THAT MOMENT IN TIME
Timothy: 11:50:23
may I insert somethin quick?
Abir: 11:50:27
is the same one who spoke to Ezequiel
Timothy: 11:50:46
yeah sorry I glanced at the study while waiting for amy
Trent Fuller: 11:50:50
I thank God that Jerimaiah wasn't burdened to be balanced and instead shared exclusively from God's current message ... and Jerimiah will not regret it.
Trent Fuller: 11:51:10
Yes, Tim?
Art and Kathy: 11:51:20
...to try and finish what I started to say, it all has to do with these end times...I totally understand that.
Art and Kathy: 11:51:42
this computer is really acting up...SORRY
Trent Fuller: 11:51:53
no prob
Trent Fuller: 11:51:54
:-)
jrtrussell: 11:52:04
WE HAVE A WORD FROM THE LORD FOR THIS MOMENT IN TIME
Timothy: 11:52:20
weather warnings on tv or the radio are all the same are they not?
Art and Kathy: 11:52:25
absolutely, Jim...
Trent Fuller: 11:52:42
re-runs of the weather report don't mean that much to me
Art and Kathy: 11:52:52
(and Tim)
Timothy: 11:52:57
but what if the weather channel gave us a warning for todays weather from last year?
Trent Fuller: 11:53:12
boring
Emily: 11:53:36
irrelevant
jrtrussell: 11:53:43
but if you had video of that tornado i'd watch...lol
Timothy: 11:53:53
you see the weather warnings are the same but the date of the warning iks the most relevant
Art and Kathy: 11:54:01
it just probably wouldn't have quite the same impact, right..
Abir: 11:54:11
its true
Abir: 11:54:18
im startin to see a bigger picture of this now
Timothy: 11:54:34
so the Trumpet I am blowing is The Letters
Abir: 11:54:41
first i looked at it through a carnal perspective but now that i look at whats behind it all i see now what we're getting at
Timothy: 11:54:56
because thats the warning going out today
Trent Fuller: 11:55:01
yes
Timothy: 11:55:31
and after that I also remind people of previous warnings
Trent Fuller: 11:55:33
Some parts of the Bible are weather reports for today ... but not all of it.
Emily: 11:55:48
That's what I was trying to say too, Trent. :)
Trent Fuller: 11:55:54
:-)
Trent Fuller: 11:55:55
amen
Trent Fuller: 11:56:00
the next letter?
Timothy: 11:56:05
wait
Trent Fuller: 11:56:06
(thanks for clarifying Tim)
Trent Fuller: 11:56:07
oh
Abir: 11:56:30
hey what trent just said
Abir: 11:56:34
does that fit in with
Abir: 11:56:37
rightly dividing The Word?
Timothy: 11:56:51
one more thing... the Lord says when were done to re-read His word above again slowly and all will be brighter
danlafave: 11:57:03
k
jrtrussell: 11:57:08
such a cool letter
Timothy: 11:57:17
and as far as Craig
Timothy: 11:57:23
it says what it says
Timothy: 11:57:51
it applies to Saturday study only for the next 3
Timothy: 11:58:17
anyway... amy is here so back to work... love ya
Trent Fuller: 11:58:32
does that mean that the rapture won't happen in the next three weeks ?
Trent Fuller: 11:58:33
lol
Emily: 11:58:43
:)
Timothy: 11:58:47
stop it
Amy: 11:58:49
? :)
Trent Fuller: 11:58:50
ok
Trent Fuller: 11:58:51
lol
Timothy: 11:59:00
I otta
Timothy: 11:59:05
(punch)
Emily: 11:59:06
Trent's being an alarmist
Emily: 11:59:07
:)
Abir: 11:59:13
(punch) both of u
Timothy: 11:59:15
lol
Trent Fuller: 11:59:16
hehe
Abir: 11:59:17
only peace
Amy: 11:59:36
OK - back to work everybody. :)
Abir: 11:59:36
(ninja)
Trent Fuller: 11:59:40
next letter is shorter
Timothy: 11:59:47
(wave)
Trent Fuller: 11:59:48
lets give time to read
Trent Fuller: 12:01:02
Warn Them From Me, Says The Lord
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10/27/09 From God The Father - The Lord�s Words Given to Timothy During an On-Line Conversation -
For Those The Lord is Sending, Who Have Been Called to Take Up the Trumpet, and For All Those Who Have Ears to Hear
Regarding the Perverse Doctrines of Men Amongst The Earthly Churches

Thus says The Lord to His servants, those who shall run into battle... MY shepherds who I have set up, those who shall shepherd the wild flock: Correct them sharply and warn them from Me, says The Lord... Let the division be concluded. For as I am, says The Lord God, so shall I be and have always been. I will not be moved, neither shall My servants... I am The Lord. Therefore, warn them from Me. For they, who hate My Word in the Volumes and refuse My correction, contend not with men, but with The Lord their God... Even to the polluting of My name. And all this in the name of pride, and according to their perverse doctrines, of which I hate. They are detestable to Me... I loathe the sight of them, and will no longer bear, nor hear them.
Therefore, again I say, warn them from Me... Whether they will hear, or whether they will forebear, make it known. Strike quickly with the sword of My Word. And by it shall they be divided, and that according to their own heart, in which they divide themselves... Casting their lot with men and the deceiver, refusing The Lord�s correction and those truths, which are self-evident in the eyes of those who know Me and in whom I dwell. For I will no longer hear the controversies of those who call of themselves Christian, who dwell in the midst of the worldly churches... No more will I allow their perverse disputings to continue. I shall turn to them the back and not the front...

Yea, I shall hide My face from them... I know them not.

They are left desolate, standing alone in the place they said they would never be...

Refinement... The Day of The Lord!...

Bewilderment and heavy sorrows...

Abased... Then shortly uplifted.

I am The Lord.

I shall give correction and impart judgment... Or how shall I gather them? Brokenness shall be their companion in the day of The Lord�s anger, for My anger shall not be turned away from them, until they say, �Blessed are the feet of those whom God sends... We will give heed to their speech and pay close attention to their proclamations... We repent, oh Lord, in dust and ashes�...

I am The Lord...

And though I bruise, I shall surely heal.
I shall cast strong judgment, yet I will also show mercy.

And though I afflict, I shall bring relief and much comfort.

All, who must go into captivity, shall go into captivity, yet I will deliver them...
Even all, who call on the name of The Lord, in that Day.

And though many will be brought low, even down to the depths of darkness and despair...
Behold!... From the depths I shall raise them up, even high above the heavens...
Yea, from the dust shall they come forth, and give Me perfect praise in the tabernacle of My glory!

And so it is fulfilled, and shall soon come to pass...
The first shall be last, and the last shall be first partakers of The Glory...

Yet all will be saved, according to the number The Lord shall call...

I AM THE LORD.
danlafave: 12:03:26
done
Emily: 12:04:07
done too
Trent Fuller: 12:04:16
For as I am, says The Lord God, so shall I be and have always been. I will not be moved, neither shall My servants... I am The Lord. Therefore, warn them from Me. For they, who hate My Word in the Volumes and refuse My correction, contend not with men, but with The Lord their God
danlafave: 12:05:24
amen
jrtrussell: 12:05:44
[11:55:51 AM] Trent Fuller: And though I bruise, I shall surely heal.
I shall cast strong judgment, yet I will also show mercy.

And though I afflict, I shall bring relief and much comfort.

<<<
Trent Fuller: 12:05:45
Is the instruction for everyone at the beginning?
jrtrussell: 12:06:03
nope
Jay&Beth!: 12:06:25
"Let the division be concluded."
danlafave: 12:06:34
no, his servants who will run into battle
Trent Fuller: 12:07:01
si
Trent Fuller: 12:07:20
what shall we say if trying to summarize this letter in a sentence?
danlafave: 12:08:18
for His servants, those chosen, to state the Word, and let every one cast their lot , eitther for or against the lord
Jay&Beth!: 12:08:20
The Lord will no longer tolerate the false doctrines that pollute His Name, and we are to warn those who preach and believe them.
Art and Kathy: 12:08:30
we trust in His unfailing Love and Mercy..
Trent Fuller: 12:08:50
yes
Trent Fuller: 12:09:13
how successful was the warning if the listener forbears and casts their lot against the letters?
Emily: 12:09:32
It's like them putting their fists up at the Lord
danlafave: 12:09:37
did what it was supposed to do
Emily: 12:10:01
The warning did its job
Art and Kathy: 12:10:05
yes,...He will not lose one..
Trent Fuller: 12:10:09
that is the definition of success isn't it?
jrtrussell: 12:10:09
buys them a ticket to The Great Day of The Lord
Trent Fuller: 12:10:31
two successful outcomes ... either one or the other decision has been made
Jay&Beth!: 12:10:36
Whether they hear or forbear.
jrtrussell: 12:10:41
amen
Trent Fuller: 12:10:51
what is unsuccessful?
Abir: 12:10:56
i gotta leave
Abir: 12:10:59
take care everyone
Jay&Beth!: 12:11:00
In the Day they cannot attempt to justify themselves before the Lord saying "Why didn't you warn us, you gave us no warning!?"
Trent Fuller: 12:11:04
(adios bro)
danlafave: 12:11:05
creating indecision on their part
Jay&Beth!: 12:11:05
Much love bro
Abir: 12:11:05
shalom God bless and love you all
Trent Fuller: 12:11:28
exactly Dan
Trent Fuller: 12:11:33
did everyone catch that?
Trent Fuller: 12:11:52
I asked what is unsuccessful ... and dan said ...
Trent Fuller: 12:12:01
[12:05:28 PM] danlafave: creating indecision

<<<
Jay&Beth!: 12:12:11
amen
jrtrussell: 12:12:14
explain
jrtrussell: 12:12:22
im not a smart man
Trent Fuller: 12:12:33
the time is to press for a decision
Trent Fuller: 12:12:37
either for or against the Letters
jrtrussell: 12:12:44
ok
Trent Fuller: 12:12:48
and to disallow procrastination on the decision
Trent Fuller: 12:12:53
no more fence sitting
Trent Fuller: 12:13:01
make up your minds, amen
Trent Fuller: 12:13:21
the only failed trumpet is the one that is ignored
Trent Fuller: 12:13:50
if the throw rocks at you ... you did something right
Emily: 12:13:59
but guess what? There is no ignoring it, don't you, by ignoring it, make a choice against it?
danlafave: 12:14:00
I disagree, if they heard the trumpet, then a decision has or was been made
Trent Fuller: 12:14:28
that depends
Emily: 12:15:37
If you are standing on a railroad track, and a train is coming...and someone says to you, "hey, yo, you've got a train coming right at you." You can either listen and get OFF the track, or you can ignore it, and by ignoring it, you make the choice to stay on the track and get pummeled.
Trent Fuller: 12:16:15
Is it enough to get off the track?
danlafave: 12:16:27
if they do not know of the leters and a re hearing about them for the first time, then a chance for a decision is going to be "allowed", but if they have already heard, then the choice is inevitable
Emily: 12:16:49
Elaborate, Trent...if you don't mind
Trent Fuller: 12:16:53
ok
Trent Fuller: 12:17:14
God is saying to SHOUT His name
Trent Fuller: 12:17:19
to Trumpet His return
Trent Fuller: 12:17:24
That is the decisino
Trent Fuller: 12:17:31
One must decide to obey or not
Trent Fuller: 12:17:44
To make their lives right and purify thier houses and warn others
Trent Fuller: 12:17:55
Yes, get off the track but JOIN us warning others too
Trent Fuller: 12:18:11
I think I have only recently gone this directino
Trent Fuller: 12:18:22
when someone seems in indecision ... I tell them
Trent Fuller: 12:18:33
I tell them what it has cost my brothers and sisters to get this message out
Trent Fuller: 12:18:38
I tell them to examine their lives
Trent Fuller: 12:18:42
Do they have a computer
Trent Fuller: 12:18:45
a printer?
Trent Fuller: 12:18:47
a dollar
Trent Fuller: 12:18:52
a cd burning
Trent Fuller: 12:18:57
a magic marker
Trent Fuller: 12:19:01
Then GET the word out ..
Trent Fuller: 12:19:08
if you believe the word, you will share it
Trent Fuller: 12:19:16
if you don't believe it you will not share it
Trent Fuller: 12:19:32
only an evil person would hear of the doom and sit on their hands believing the word is true
Trent Fuller: 12:19:49
So there are a few people who may seem to agree with the Letters ..
Trent Fuller: 12:19:55
at least not enough to argue against them
Trent Fuller: 12:20:16
but that is the indecision that God will not allow to go on and on forever
Trent Fuller: 12:20:23
It is a call to action
Trent Fuller: 12:20:28
the whole of the Letters
Emily: 12:20:41
So in other words, yes, get off the track, but then go next to the other guy who's shouting and shout with him?
jrtrussell: 12:20:53
amen
Trent Fuller: 12:20:57
yes
danlafave: 12:21:08
let him warn who he will, move on for more
Jay&Beth!: 12:21:11
makes sense to me, thanks for clarifying, that's awesome
Trent Fuller: 12:21:15
and if not shouting together ... then indecision remains
Emily: 12:21:31
amen good point
Trent Fuller: 12:21:51
shouting together or shouting against ... are both evidence of decision
danlafave: 12:22:45
"those who are in league, uplift and support those who support the same cause"
Trent Fuller: 12:23:03
yes ... if it is an important matter
Trent Fuller: 12:23:16
is this an important matter?
Emily: 12:23:20
YES SIR
Trent Fuller: 12:23:22
does it not call for action?
Emily: 12:23:32
It calls for action with all of our beings
Trent Fuller: 12:23:42
yes
danlafave: 12:23:53
His return is not important??? It is what the earth has waited for for over 2000 yrs !!!!
Trent Fuller: 12:23:58
The other day someone said "be careful" with regard to the Letters
jrtrussell: 12:24:18
hear it all the time
Trent Fuller: 12:24:22
so the Lord had me tell him about all the things that we have suffered getting the word out
Trent Fuller: 12:24:31
lost jobs
Trent Fuller: 12:24:34
lost families
Trent Fuller: 12:24:35
and still we shout louder
Trent Fuller: 12:24:45
then I said, "You have a computer, you have the means to join us."
Trent Fuller: 12:25:05
Decide, because I am not letting you distract me again. ... Either for or against
Trent Fuller: 12:25:11
Search it out
Trent Fuller: 12:25:13
Fast
Trent Fuller: 12:25:14
Pray
Trent Fuller: 12:25:36
be diligent and make a decision that you can live with for 1000 years, because that is how long you will have to live with it
Trent Fuller: 12:25:47
How will you spend the last minutes before midnight?
Trent Fuller: 12:25:49
HOW?
Trent Fuller: 12:25:52
Decide
Trent Fuller: 12:25:54
... he did
Trent Fuller: 12:26:00
I was unfriended and blocked
Trent Fuller: 12:26:01
amen
Trent Fuller: 12:26:03
that is what I wanted
Trent Fuller: 12:26:07
hallelujah!
Trent Fuller: 12:26:13
The Lord gave me what to say
danlafave: 12:26:38
knocked the dust right off'em,(sandals)
Trent Fuller: 12:26:51
Tim had a good point about that
Trent Fuller: 12:27:04
Do we knock dust off before giving the message?
Trent Fuller: 12:27:35
did the diciples see the town on the horizion and say "I have a bad feeling about this ... lets knock the dust off our sandles now."
Trent Fuller: 12:27:36
?
Emily: 12:27:44
no
Emily: 12:27:48
of course not
danlafave: 12:28:01
no, tht is judging and be careful to avoid tht ,for whoare they rebuking?
Trent Fuller: 12:28:14
I admit that I often have a bad feeling about people
Trent Fuller: 12:28:20
like ... they won't accept this
Emily: 12:28:29
You'd be surprised sometimes....
Trent Fuller: 12:28:31
But that is no time to knock the dust off
Trent Fuller: 12:28:46
amen
Emily: 12:28:54
Look at each of us
Emily: 12:29:05
Especially those of us that have been in the churches
danlafave: 12:29:16
"book by it's cover syndrome"
Emily: 12:29:26
Who would have thought we would ever accept the Letters?
jrtrussell: 12:29:29
thats my problem
jrtrussell: 12:29:37
i do that all the time...judge
jrtrussell: 12:29:39
arrrg
Trent Fuller: 12:29:48
How do you want to remember the last months that you spent before the coming of the Lord? You will remember it forever ... HOW do you want it remembered? Playing it safe?
Emily: 12:30:11
I want to remember my all out abandonment
Emily: 12:30:14
for the Lord Jesus
Trent Fuller: 12:30:22
Yes
danlafave: 12:30:45
really, what do we have to fear, for it isn't us they are rebuking, and the world hated Him, should we not expect the same?
Trent Fuller: 12:30:52
Don't your friends and acquantences deserve the ability to decide that same thing for themselves? How they will live it?
Trent Fuller: 12:31:24
The train is coming ... you have 5 minutes ... how will you spend it?
danlafave: 12:31:25
The Word divides bone and sinew, ...
Emily: 12:31:41
scream! yell!! Wave your hands, jump up and down
Trent Fuller: 12:31:48
we aren't doing anyone any favors to be cautious
Trent Fuller: 12:32:28
They will wonder ... why didn't you tell me this was important in those last days ... important enough to loose my job, family, friends, and loose it all for the sake of Christ?
Trent Fuller: 12:32:40
Why didn't you make me decide?
Trent Fuller: 12:32:46
and tell me what was at stake
Trent Fuller: 12:32:47
?
jrtrussell: 12:32:51
ya
Trent Fuller: 12:33:03
but if they DID decide ... well, it is on them
danlafave: 12:34:00
yes
Trent Fuller: 12:34:16
well
Trent Fuller: 12:34:17
amen
Trent Fuller: 12:34:20
closing remarkes before prayer?
danlafave: 12:34:38
we are not their salvation, "just the mailpeople"
Trent Fuller: 12:35:03
aaaaaaaaaaaaamen
Trent Fuller: 12:35:09
don't convince anyone
Emily: 12:35:23
onlyu the Lord can convince
Trent Fuller: 12:35:29
don't help them make up their mind ... just trust the Lord
danlafave: 12:35:57
amen, rejection is abounding
Trent Fuller: 12:36:02
challenge them to look into it will all dilegence and make a decsion they can live with for 1000 years ... for indeed they will
danlafave: 12:36:20
xclnt py.
Trent Fuller: 12:36:21
1000 years and forever after
danlafave: 12:36:25
pt
Trent Fuller: 12:36:54
Dan, will you lead in prayer?
danlafave: 12:37:08
Yes,
danlafave: 12:38:10
Oh Holy Father, thank you for the Letters You have bestowed upon us, the clarifying and realizing of your Truth,
danlafave: 12:39:06
that Truth which is the rod tht all need to use to understand what and how the Word has been changed, over time, allowing our father's to 'fall asleep,
danlafave: 12:39:56
Not withstanding, that the word you are giving us today, is the Word to Live by, and to help us meet and trumpet as you would have us,
danlafave: 12:40:15
to continually keep You and Your son in the forefront of our dailuy lives,
danlafave: 12:40:21
son*
Trent Fuller: 12:40:57
yes
danlafave: 12:40:58
Adonai, hear our prayers as we go forth, blessing all who would hear and forbare, to understand tht this is the time,
danlafave: 12:41:27
the Time of which The Ages have waited for
danlafave: 12:41:40
Come, King YahuShua
danlafave: 12:42:22
deliver Your son His bride, and show those who would accept athat yours is the Kingdom and the power and the glory for Forever
danlafave: 12:42:30
son*
danlafave: 12:42:37
please join in
Jay&Beth!: 12:42:54
We love You Lord
Trent Fuller: 12:43:00
You're faithful to my heart
Trent Fuller: 12:43:07
You will come and marry me
Emily: 12:43:16
Thank You for opening our eyes...even this far.
danlafave: 12:43:17
We are your servants, Oh Our God, and We love You as no other
Trent Fuller: 12:43:18
Faithful to the end
Emily: 12:43:23
I cannot wait to know MORE of You
Jay&Beth!: 12:43:28
Teach us to abide more and more that we bear more bountiful fruit!
Jay&Beth!: 12:43:34
You are so awesome.
Trent Fuller: 12:43:47
Glory to they Righteous One!
Jay&Beth!: 12:43:53
Give us voices to SHOUT loudly
Trent Fuller: 12:43:57
Glory to the Righteous One!
danlafave: 12:44:01
Hail the King, for He comes In His Raiment
Jay&Beth!: 12:44:02
You are the Lord our Righteousness
Trent Fuller: 12:44:17
Glory to the Righteous ONE!
Trent Fuller: 12:44:25
Hallelujah!
Derek Sasha & Malachi: 12:45:08
thank You Lord for everything, thank You so much for leading me and my family and everyone here back to You, thank You for giving us life again... I love You Lord
Jay&Beth!: 12:45:19
Thank You for Your correction
danlafave: 12:45:21
Lord, Lord, we beseech you, let those who will hear, accept the Truth of Your Words, notwithstanding, but bowing down to the One True Messiah
Jay&Beth!: 12:45:22
You are good to us
Jay&Beth!: 12:45:40
You do all things well
Trent Fuller: 12:45:52
The promise of Your coming Light / it burns so brightly in my mind / And all creation lays in wait / for the coming of the Day ... OH MY SOUL!
Jay&Beth!: 12:45:56
You do it for Your Namesake, all glory be given to You
danlafave: 12:45:59
YOU ARE THE EVERYTHING, THE MEANING TO LIFE IN ITSELF, FOR WITHOUT YOU, WHAT IS LIFE???
Trent Fuller: 12:46:24
Come!
danlafave: 12:46:44
Oh our sweet Lord, we lift up your name in Praise, for who has done the mighty works that only You can do?
Emily: 12:46:59
Bundle us together...come Lord YahShua!
danlafave: 12:48:00
take these tears and use then to ese the sorrow and pain from Your heart, let your servants hearts pave the way for You to come into your Kingdom, My LOrd MY Righteousness
Trent Fuller: 12:48:13
You are faithful to the end!
Trent Fuller: 12:48:18
You will come!
Trent Fuller: 12:48:25
You will rescue me!
Trent Fuller: 12:48:42
Faithful til the end!
danlafave: 12:48:47
Praise and Glory for He is THE Lamb who was slain for our transgressions
Trent Fuller: 12:48:57
amen!
danlafave: 12:49:10
who are we taht You even are mindful of us, Oh God
Trent Fuller: 12:49:25
Thank You!
danlafave: 12:49:46
let your Power rip the earth asunder, making all bow before the True Prince of Peace
Trent Fuller: 12:50:32
Every knee will bow / every tounge will SHOUT . .. JESUS IS THE LORD!
Trent Fuller: 12:50:43
Jesus is the Lord!
Derek Sasha & Malachi: 12:50:46
yes! amen
danlafave: 12:51:00
for all these things we pray for in His most Beautiful name, THE name above all Names, YahuShua Hamaschaich, AMEN
Trent Fuller: 12:51:09
Every eye will see the coming of the King! Jesus is the Lord!
Trent Fuller: 12:51:15
amen
Trent Fuller: 12:51:18
amen and amen
danlafave: 12:51:39
Love and peace will abound, hate and pain gone forever more, so wonderful...
Derek Sasha & Malachi: 12:51:42
amen
danlafave: 12:51:49
amen and amen
Trina: 12:51:52
Amen
Emily: 12:52:04
AMEN
Jay&Beth!: 12:52:11
Amen
Jay&Beth!: 12:52:21
Love yall! Have a blessed day in YahuShua
Trent Fuller: 12:52:27
love ya bro
Trent Fuller: 12:52:31
love ya everyone!
Derek Sasha & Malachi: 12:52:38
you too :)
Trent Fuller: 12:52:38
Shalom in Yahushua!
danlafave: 12:52:45
to all in the study and beyound, shalom!!!
Emily: 12:52:54
Amen
Art and Kathy: 12:53:36
amen
Art and Kathy: 12:53:48
have a good day, all

TrumpetCallofGodOnline.com:

"True and Actual Conversations With
God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ,
Given to a Modern Man for Modern Man's Sake"...

HEAR THE TRUMPET CALL OF THE END OF THIS AGE!

Re: Trumpet Call of God

bob — Mon, 09 Nov 2009 22:24:53 +0100

[b][color=#FF0000]Sparky.....I am not a member[/color][/b]

Re: Trumpet Call of God

wendyjduncan — Mon, 09 Nov 2009 03:46:48 +0100

Hi, Bob!
I am curious how you obtained this transcript. I agree with Sparky--it is pretty dull.

Re: just escaped

immps — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 19:26:21 +0100

hi i also escaped from that church. i stared to go when i was 15 yeahs old. i came from a brocken home which they had no problem playing on. they were controlling and everthing i did or said was know by the leaders. they gave my the secne of family that i never had which is way i stayed for so long, for over ten years.

i knew something was not rigth but could not put my finger on it. i was always praying and reading my Bible which was a good thing as i belive God was trying to show me something. everything was kept behide closed doors, they told us not to talk to otheir churchs and not to have any none christain friends. as they just confuse us and there belives. everything they did was to keep us under control and away from people who may try to open our eyes. even dating men would go to the leaders befour getting to know you. once dating you could not sit together, hold hands, kiss or call each otheir on the phone with out someone being there. men use to ask me to marry them out of the blue. when i said no the learder told me i was leading them on even when sometimes i never even talked to them befour.

Women was made to feel secound class, as most of the teachings were about women trying to temp men to Sin and all we did was talk anout people behide theres backs. if someone left we was told not to talk to the and to cut them off as they would also lead us to Sin.

i stared to date someone from a diffrent church, when the learders found out i was called into the office. i was told i was sinning and that sex is a sin. but this boy was a chirtian himself and we never had sex and i never had sex in my life but they did not what to see that. i was told off for everything they ever througt i did wrong inclueding for the men who ask me out. i was told not to talk to any of the males in church. i could not belive it they were trying to ban me from talking. this was the thing i could not put my finger on. now i knew i was not going againt God by leveing and that this was his wake up call for me. i lft and found a new church and even got married.

Re: Living with fears after leaving a cult

Mary Struggler — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 19:17:20 +0100

If one can afford professional help, that's great. This is not to dissuade anyone from seeking them out but sometimes the realist in me comes out. Not everyone that leaves a cult has resources (or after one is thrown out). My sister spent almost a month living in a homeless shelter with her daughter, signed up for welfare and food stamps, relied on the charity of strangers to get her back on her feet again. She was thousand of miles from family, had no contact with family (except me and Gino in the organization) for nearly ten years.

To be blunt, after my experience, I wasn't about to trust some "shrink" that I was convinced was just out to scramble my brains like eggs. That's the mindset that had been ingrained into me by Gino. Sure, twelve years later I still have issues but I accept the fact that I have issues. In a lot of ways, my sister is doing better than me. I'm the hot head, she's the voice of reason, when it comes to talking about our experiences. I will do what I can to steer people to the good sites and hope they find what they need. I will talk about what I went through and how I coped, if it helps someone great. I am [u]not[/u] in any way, shape or form a therapist. This is why I link my blog to what I perceive to be good, helpful sites such as this forum, Hassan and Lalich.

Ultimately, it is up to the individual, which is probably the scariest thing after leaving a communal society. Who can you trust? "They" and "them" out there were out to get me for a long time, plus the organization was "after me". We all have things in common but we also have unique experiences with our past participation. If you say nothing, it could eat you from the inside. Like I said, if you can afford the help that's great.

Re: Living with fears after leaving a cult

rrmoderator — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 16:25:13 +0100

See http://www.rickross.com/recovery.html

Note the directory to helping professional resources.

Re: Living with fears after leaving a cult

recoveringtoo — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 03:32:20 +0100

I am still anxious over a decade later. About 2 years ago I started learning about psychology, that it wasnt evil. I am able to eat more foods than before. I was in a cult that had a health clinic. And that's just hard to talk about. I wish I could find people who could understand and help. It's hard for me to even write this here because I have not talked about it for so long, except with my fiance.

What kinds of churches do any of you go to?

recoveringtoo — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 03:14:00 +0100

I go to interfaith churches now. I strongly believe in God but not an elite group. I believe God loves the good in all people.

Looking for lowcost help in South Jersey

recoveringtoo — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 03:10:18 +0100

I have found a few people but the one in north jersey do not believe in paranormal experiences and the one in philadelphia is still into Christianity. I am a believer in a God and interfaith at this point. Part of the problems in the cult I was in had to do with the paranormal, and that can't be ignored or dismissed. Anyone that has any resources, please post.

Re: Trumpet Call of God

Sparky — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 20:12:46 +0100

bob, welcome. Thank you for posting an on-line meeting of Trumpet Call of God.

What do you make of all this...I mean besides the obviously dull and boring "meeting" and the clearly nebulous "Letters" which have the feel of authenticity of being written by Joseph Smith and his "peep-stones"?

Have you been or are you a member? frogla needs some answers and suggestions if you have any.