http://forum.rickross.com/list.php?3 EN Sun, 15 Nov 2009 17:56:59 +0100 Sun, 15 Nov 2009 17:56:59 +0100 Multi Level Marketing and Commercial Schemes Phorum 5.1.25 60 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?3,21069,78722#msg-78722 jerryjaxx Multi Level Marketing and Commercial Schemes http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?3,21069,78722#msg-78722 Sun, 15 Nov 2009 17:56:59 +0100 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?3,49846,78694#msg-78694 tiggerwil
im bummed because another womens weekend is going on right now in newburgh ny

my guy and i are still on our roller coaster, i wish i were a different person and could just "let go"

but i can't.

if only, everything would be easier. we could have an awesome superficial life, he even wants to socialize with

some of these people, he Wants me to meet some of them. maybe im crazy, but that freaks me right out.

just something i've been thinking,

around the same time he did this weekend, i just so happened to read an article on wt loss hypnosis.

i bought the book and accompanying cd, read it, and listened to the 3 part cd 3 times, 1st part was about fixing

what i could from my past so that i could "move on"

2nd part was about the present

3rd part was about the future, and envisioning yourself as a "new" person

the 3rd part was supposed to be listened to for 21 days, i only listened once.

heres my point. i read a book, and spent a total 60 minutes under "hypnosis" so to speak, the 1st and 3rd times i

was fully conscious, did not go under.

the present part of it i remember "waking up"

since doing that, i have lost 35 lbs, something ive wanted to do for 3 1/2 years, am eating better and exercising

alot of the time.

So ok, something motivated me

60 minutes of hypnosis? maybe.

but if its that effective, i can only imagine what a sleep deprived 50 hr interval with app 3 hrs sleep in which

altered states of consciousness are induced, along with justin sterling ranting his polluted rhetoric would do to a

persons mind

my guy is really not changed much (to me), although he definitely is NOT mentally sharper,

it's like he's overtired all the time (not unlike before, but more so now)

is establishing bonds with various members of his group, feels better than he used to,

etc etc.

but i tell him over and over that he gave away his brain on that weekend, and doesnt realize it.

he looks at info i show him , but adamantly denies he was "altered" in any way.


i do feel my little hypnosis wt loss sessions unlocked something in me that enabled me to get the ball rolling.

but having your subconscious mind pummeled in a 50 hr period with whatever sterling feeds into it terrifies me.

and i keep telling him he should be pretty freaking angry that he was manipulated into a situation as this, but he

DOES NOT SEE IT THAT WAY

anyone have any thoughts?

by the way, im keeping the women in that nasty place with that dirty little man in my thoughts and prayers.

cherish your freedom, everybody]]> Multi Level Marketing and Commercial Schemes http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?3,49846,78694#msg-78694 Sat, 14 Nov 2009 18:26:53 +0100 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?3,2969,77965#msg-77965 Sol Ivictus
Here is an excerpt:

She told me about the schedule that these kids were told they MUST adhere to. Wake up at exactly 5:59, take a ONE MINUTE COLD SHOWER, out the door and sell until 9:00 pm. EVERY day except Sundays. On Sundays they were all told by their student managers that they must go to a meeting, which was held at a different location every week. At these meetings they performed what was called execs. These are cult like chants--- running in circles, rhythmic hand clapping...below is an excerpt taken from this site (http://www.gatorpressure.com/David/archives/000308.html) which details this bizarre activity: "Executive Exercises.

In the morning, we will do execs at our breakfast spots out in the parking lot or in a nearby open area. We will do them in front of roads or highways, we will do them in front of the restaurant's patrons, and on Sundays when we are at a hotel we will do them in the hotel parking lot.

What are these 'execs?'

Well, they start with someone mentioning execs. That person will usually then raise his hand up in the air shout "ohhhhhhh...hhhhh... Ohhhhhh...!" indefinately while running around in a large circle. Everyone else follows this person doing the same exact thing until everyone is present in the circle.

At that point we will start skipping and singing a song. The song goes --
It's a great day to be a bookman.
It's a great day I know.
It's a great day to be a bookman everywhere I go.
Goodbye no-nevers, goodbye doubts and fears
It's a great day to be a bookman -- be of good cheer.
I feel happy. I feel terrific. I feel GREAT!

Then someone will yell out loud "UH-OH!" and we all will chime in "Book Time!" We all sing/chant this in unison four times while doing a very specific rythmic clap that took me a few tries to get down. (I still mess it up on the really sleepy mornings.) After chanting that four to five times someone makes the conductor's sign for stop and everyone goes silent.

After about three beats another iniative-taking (sic) individual will jump or dance into the center of the circle and yell/scream out, "Now let me see that funky chicken!" at the top of his voice, and everyone else will yell something like, "What's that you said!?! This happens three times with slight variations each time based on the whims of the person in the center of the circle. At the end He will say "I said unh..." and everyone in unison will sing "Oooo, ah ah ah oooo; ah ah ah oooo; ah ah ah oooo; one more time now!! Oooo, ah ah ah oooo; ah ah ah oooo; ah ah ah oooo." Or whatever other chant, saying, or sounds that go along with the particular thing that the initiator wanted to "see."

The variations on this are numerous and growing. We come up with new stuff from time to time. I come up with new stuff all the time, because I enjoy execs and I come up with stuff that I think will be fun all the time. Most of the time the stuff I come up with doesn't really pan out, but that is fine because every once and again I'll come up with something really fun and even "classic."

After doing that there are several other execs that we do. Some we only do in a large group on Sundays, but most of the other ones are just thrown in as people remember them. If no one remembers a particular exec it's fine -- it doesn't get done.

At the end of execs we do this thing where we all gather in a circle and get fired up and then we all run off acting like birds, ostriches, video game charaters or bookmen..."]]> Multi Level Marketing and Commercial Schemes http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?3,2969,77965#msg-77965 Tue, 27 Oct 2009 02:47:00 +0100 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?3,77932,77932#msg-77932 95percentbs Multi Level Marketing and Commercial Schemes http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?3,77932,77932#msg-77932 Mon, 26 Oct 2009 04:18:49 +0100 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?3,2969,77817#msg-77817 isitacult?
I have been approached several times in my life by people selling these magazines or newspapers. The tip off is the sales pitch. They all use the same one and are obviously told to lie through their teeth. They are all either in a contest for a trip to some exotic location or trying to get a scholarship for college. Of course, they only need one more sale (that would be me) to win the contest. When it becomes clear that the sale will not be made, all the lovey dovey nicey nicey suddenly disappears into the either and is replaced by a venomous accusation hurtled almost violently, such as, "you don't want me to go to college?" Sigh.

The last one was an understated accusation that I was lying about not being able to afford to buy a magazine just then. (It actually wasn't a lie. It was a truth, albeit a convenient one.) It went something like this, "All of you people tell me you can't afford to buy a magazine but I can't believe the people who hired me would tell me there was a market for this if it wasn't true." Yes. He really did say that. So, of course I was the bad guy. If I knew then what I know now I would have learnt the poor fellow a thing or three about the people who hired him and their believability.

It was this encounter that got me to wonder if these sales people are victims just as much as their targets are. So I looked this thing up on the web and found a lot of abuses. It is just like what has already been accounted here. Someone died from an asthma attack that went untreated for too long. The girl had an attack in the middle of a sales pitch and her partner ditched on her, taking her purse-in which was her inhaler. The partner and the crew manager fled in the van and left the asthmatic girl to her own devices. She died in the emergency room. Another was killed in a car accident. There were accounts of people having to beg food from their targets because they hadn't eaten in several days. There were other accounts of kids being verbally and physically abused for failing to produce. As far as the sales that are made, as often as not those people never do receive their magazines.

The Better Business Bureau has been contacted many times about these sales crews. This is allowed to continue because there are 3 companies who supply these crews and they all deny responsibility for how the sales people on the crews are treated. These companies say they are just suppliers to the folks who run the crews- the abusive managers. Why the managers get away with it I don't know.

Next time I encounter one of these sales people I intend to inform them about this business they are involved in.]]> Multi Level Marketing and Commercial Schemes http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?3,2969,77817#msg-77817 Thu, 22 Oct 2009 03:58:33 +0200 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?3,21069,77750#msg-77750 questioner Multi Level Marketing and Commercial Schemes http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?3,21069,77750#msg-77750 Tue, 20 Oct 2009 01:55:28 +0200 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?3,21069,77749#msg-77749 questioner
"Should the victims of supposedly spiritual confidence schemes take responsibility, if they were conned and deceived?"

If someone chooses to quit their job or rack up their credit card bills, yes, they should take responsibility for that. Nobody else chose to do that and I've never heard Abraham-Hicks tell anyone to do that. I can't speak from experience of other so-called "cults" that are real cults and really manipulate people into ruining their lives. Of course those people are victims of a crime.

Abraham-Hicks is selling a product. So far in this thread I haven't read any stories of anyone who has been truly victimized by Abraham-Hicks. The people whose spouses were nutty would probably have found some other thing to be nutty about if they hadn't latched on to Abraham-Hicks.

Yes, if people are lying and scheming and manipulating people into giving them all their money, that is wrong. I don't think Abraham-Hicks are doing that specifically. They've even stopped using the word "channeling" so it can be interpreted in a lot of ways. I personally think it's made up, maybe they really believe they're channeling some being. We really have no idea of knowing what they really believe and think and what their true intentions are.

I DON'T think Abraham-Hicks is a cult but I DO think people need to use some common sense. I DO think people can go overboard and get too over-involved with people. Abraham-Hicks doesn't tell people to get rid of their friends that disagree with them. Some people choose to do that, and then they immerse themselves in that quazi-spiritual world. But that is something that they are CHOOSING to do and the instruction to do that is not coming from Abraham-Hicks.

It feels like you want to fight with me just because my opinion of them isn't all bad. Can't we have a discussion where we look at both sides of the story? The complete black-or-white nature of this argument isn't serving anyone.

Do I think sometimes fans of Abraham-Hicks lose a bit of touch with reality? Yes, I do. Do I think that they are still responsible for their own actions? Yes, I do.]]> Multi Level Marketing and Commercial Schemes http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?3,21069,77749#msg-77749 Tue, 20 Oct 2009 01:52:59 +0200 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?3,21069,77742#msg-77742 rrmoderator
"I can't blame this 100% on Abraham-Hicks. Every person needs to take responsibility for his own life. But you will notice many people who 'follow' Abraham-Hicks and end up in financial ruin. (but on the other hand there are many very wealthy and successful people who are fans of Abraham, too."

Your posts go back and forth.

"take responsibility"?

Should the victims of supposedly spiritual confidence schemes take responsibility, if they were conned and deceived?]]> Multi Level Marketing and Commercial Schemes http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?3,21069,77742#msg-77742 Mon, 19 Oct 2009 23:18:52 +0200 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?3,21069,77741#msg-77741 questioner
I'll repeat, I am not sticking up for them. I am not victim bashing. I am not saying they are good or bad or anything. I want to give the information that I have experienced and observed through my own personal involvement and let people decide for themselves. I do not support nor do I hate or want to speak against them. This is just my experience and people should be wary of anything that could potentially suck them in or leave them feeling conned.

I think there is a good chance it's a con. I don't believe what they teach is coming from a supernatural being at all. But I can't prove that they're lying, either. I'm not here to defame anyone.]]> Multi Level Marketing and Commercial Schemes http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?3,21069,77741#msg-77741 Mon, 19 Oct 2009 23:04:30 +0200 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?3,21069,77740#msg-77740 questioner
I'm not victim bashing. My purpose of posting here is to discuss whether or not Abraham-Hicks is a cult. I'm not here to defend them or to slam them or any of their fans or followers. I'm trying to remain as impartial as possible because I can see some value in what they teach and I can also see some harm coming from it, too.]]> Multi Level Marketing and Commercial Schemes http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?3,21069,77740#msg-77740 Mon, 19 Oct 2009 22:57:34 +0200 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?3,21069,77738#msg-77738 rrmoderator
"pro-cult side"?

What is your purpose for posting here?

Seems like you are attempting to do a little bit of "victim bashing."

People that base their business schemes on "channeling" claims are dubious to say the least.

Frankly, the Hicks appear to be little more than "con artists" playing on people's vulnerabilities to make money.

People with personal problems are probably better off seeking help from licensed professionals that have meaningful accountability through educational and licensing requirements.

And if someone wants to enhance their income it's more likely they will benefit from continuing education through an accredited school.]]> Multi Level Marketing and Commercial Schemes http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?3,21069,77738#msg-77738 Mon, 19 Oct 2009 22:49:52 +0200 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?3,21069,77737#msg-77737 questioner
Because there is a lot of room for interpretation and because there is a lot of contradiction in the teachings, a lot of people are somewhat led astray. They put their faith in the words "you can be, do or have anything you desire" and instead of working hard they do nothing and wish and hope their lives away. I can't blame this 100% on Abraham-Hicks. Every person needs to take responsibility for his own life. But you will notice many people who "follow" Abraham-Hicks and end up in financial ruin. (but on the other hand there are many very wealthy and successful people who are fans of Abraham, too.
The financial ruin isn't necessarily from buying all their books and seminars (though I have heard of some people who have no money of their own racking up their credit cards so they can go on a cruise or to a seminar). That is a choice people make and I don't think Abraham-Hicks would tell people to rack up their credit cards. I'm pretty sure they've said the opposite.
But it is people's interpretation that if they wish hard enough and only focus on things that feel good, that their lives will turn around completely. Some people do this to the point of not being reliable at work or quitting a job that doesn't feel good with the faith that a better job is just around the corner.
There is some truth to the "thoughts become things" teachings. Your mood and attitude towards life have a huge impact on the success and happiness you experience. This is the truthful aspect of their teachings. It is very valuable information to remember. It's when things get extreme and people expect everything to be solved by happy thoughts that concerns me most.]]> Multi Level Marketing and Commercial Schemes http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?3,21069,77737#msg-77737 Mon, 19 Oct 2009 22:27:39 +0200 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?3,21069,77735#msg-77735 questioner "Seems like what you are describing is business designed to make money from "channeling" claims. " sounds fairly accurate.

I don't know if their #1 reason for the business is to make money or if it is to help people in some way. I suspect it's a bit of both, like just about any business. They are authors & motivational speakers. It's like if Tony Robbins started claiming he was psychic or a channel. They're like the new age spirituality version of Tony Robbins (Tony & Abraham probably have pretty similar teachings in a lot of areas).

I wouldn't call Abraham-Hicks a cult. But there are definitely some cult-like behaviors among some of their fans. This seems to be a symptom of the self-help industry over all. There is a lot of truth to what they teach, but it is not the answer for everything as so many people believe it to be. That is where the problems begin. If you look at them as motivational speakers (or her, Esther), you can take what is useful and leave the rest. But a lot of people base their whole lives on the teachings and even though they believe they're thinking for themselves, it doesn't seem that way when they just repeat everything they've been taught.

It's a fine line and a grey area. I don't think it's fair to classify them as a cult. I do think it's important to keep an open discussion and make people aware because a lot of people get sucked in. There are fanatics in any belief system. Christian & Catholic fanatics, new age fanatics, Abraham-Hicks fanatics, Islamic extremists. Anything taken to the extreme and absolute can get unhealthy and dangerous. And the frustration is that people who want to have an open dialogue don't seem to have that option. With the forums, you're either pro everything Abraham says or it seems like you're against it and your posts will either be deleted or chastised. That aspect of it is VERY cult-like. But that isn't the direct work of Abraham-Hicks, that is a group of people who have created those online communities.]]> Multi Level Marketing and Commercial Schemes http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?3,21069,77735#msg-77735 Mon, 19 Oct 2009 21:27:21 +0200 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?3,21069,77734#msg-77734 rrmoderator
Seems like what you are describing is business designed to make money from "channeling" claims.

And based upon your response the Hicks have no meaningful accountability to anyone.]]> Multi Level Marketing and Commercial Schemes http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?3,21069,77734#msg-77734 Mon, 19 Oct 2009 20:54:23 +0200 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?3,21069,77733#msg-77733 questioner
What seems more cult-like are the groups that have formed around the Teachings of Abraham. Like the forums. It is free to join but you are not allowed to say anything negative and discuss the inconsistencies in the teachings.

Abraham-Hicks charges for their seminars and books but you can also get those books for free at the library and you can learn the basics of what they teach for free on their website & you can hear old seminars for free on Hay House Radio. it's not like a club where you join in a group. That's why I don't think it fits into the real definition of a "cult." It's the "fans" of these people who call themselves "followers" or "Abers" not the people who are driving around the country doing workshops.

There are some cult-like beliefs among the people on the online forums but Abraham-Hicks have specifically not created their own forum and instead have friends and business associates who run then. Maybe it is to distance themselves from the idea of being a cult.]]> Multi Level Marketing and Commercial Schemes http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?3,21069,77733#msg-77733 Mon, 19 Oct 2009 20:51:42 +0200 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?3,21069,77732#msg-77732 rrmoderator
What specific accountability is there within the organization you are discussing?

Is there a democratically elected board that can reprimand and potentially dismiss the leader?

What financial transparency is there? Is there an independently audited financial statement or budget published and made public that discloses in detail all salaries, compensation and expenses of the group?

When leaders don't have meaningful accountability they can be seen as totalitarian.

See http://www.rickross.com/faq.html

Psychiatrist Robert Jay Lifton, who wrote the definitive book about thought reform (often called "brainwashing") also wrote a paper about cult formation. Lifton defined a cult as having the following three characteristics:

1. A charismatic leader, who increasingly becomes an object of worship as the general principles that may have originally sustained the group lose power.

2. A process [is in use] call[ed] coercive persuasion or thought reform.

3. Economic, sexual, and other exploitation of group members by the leader and the ruling coterie.

The Roman Catholic Church does not fit the criteria of a "cult." Actually, though there are many cults very few religious groups fits that definition.]]> Multi Level Marketing and Commercial Schemes http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?3,21069,77732#msg-77732 Mon, 19 Oct 2009 19:58:08 +0200 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?3,21069,77731#msg-77731 questioner
What is a Cult?

Every cult can be defined as a group having [b]all[/b][i][/i] of the following five characteristics:

1. It uses psychological coercion to recruit, indoctrinate and retain its members

2. It forms an elitist totalitarian society.

3. Its founder leader is self-appointed, dogmatic, messianic, not accountable and has charisma.

4. It believes 'the end justifies the means' in order to solicit funds recruit people.

5. Its wealth does not benefit its members or society.

I can see the Abraham-Hicks business maybe has 3 or 4 out of 5 characteristics, so according to the site where this came from, Abe-Hicks doesn't qualify as a cult. I don't think #2 matches. Elitist? Possibly. Totalitarian? Not at all.
And #4, where the end justifies the means. I don't see that fitting in with Abe-Hicks.

I think there's room for discussion about the possibility of this organization being a cult since it does seem a lot like one. I don't think that it is a real cult, looking at these definitions. The Catholic church has at least as many of those characteristics and they aren't considered a cult. or are they?]]> Multi Level Marketing and Commercial Schemes http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?3,21069,77731#msg-77731 Mon, 19 Oct 2009 19:48:50 +0200 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?3,21069,77721#msg-77721 questioner
Abraham does teach people to be "selfish" but not in that way. To many, the idea that you are here to look after yourself first is a revaluation. (like Shannon said, putting on your own oxygen mask before others). I agree with that level of selfishness. If a person can't take care of himself first then he's of no use to anyone else. But I don't think the Hicks are trying to be malicious. Maybe a bit manipulative and definitely profiting from people who are spending their last money on false hopes, but they don't tell men to treat their families like that.

Your husband is using Abraham-Hicks to serve his own negative behaviors. If he was Christian, he'd quote the Bible and find some way to twist that into making his behavior okay. I've even seen Buddhist people twist the Buddhism teachings in order to be callous, disgusting and self-serving.

I have to defend Abraham-Hicks in this situation, since your husband is totally NOT following the teachings. He's being an a$$hole and using whatever belief system he can latch onto in order to justify it to himself so he can sleep at night and look himself in the mirror. Plain and simple. And there are people who will do that kind of thing from ALL faiths, religions and belief systems.]]> Multi Level Marketing and Commercial Schemes http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?3,21069,77721#msg-77721 Mon, 19 Oct 2009 04:45:35 +0200 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?3,21069,77719#msg-77719 questioner There are lots of times when Esther has to reach for words or doesn't understand a question and either has to repeat the question or ask the questioner to repeat the question (for humans, this is how people give themselves time to come up with an answer). If this being was really from source, the answers would be more than they are. There would be more specific information. The way it is now the information is glazed-over. They have come up with an idea and they just repeat the same answer with a slightly different spin for every question.
Try asking Esther (while channeling Abraham) the square root of 2685.5 and see how long it takes to come up with an answer. If this being is from source and has access to All That Is, as they say they do, simple questions like these should be answered easily.

I heard an exchange where a questioner asked about the face on Mars and wanted to know if aliens really created it. Esther/Abraham didn't know what the guy was talking about. If Abraham is really source they would know the answer to that.]]> Multi Level Marketing and Commercial Schemes http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?3,21069,77719#msg-77719 Mon, 19 Oct 2009 04:18:51 +0200 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?3,25144,77716#msg-77716 questioner Multi Level Marketing and Commercial Schemes http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?3,25144,77716#msg-77716 Mon, 19 Oct 2009 03:50:36 +0200 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?3,21069,77715#msg-77715 questioner

Just up to $50 a month for CDs? I was a member of their CD club and ended up spending a few hundred every month, I had to cancel because it was getting too expensive for me.

I agree their books are ALL the same. If you have read one, you have read them all. There is no difference except they occasionally use different words (they used to call the flow of life floating downstream & resistance is paddling upstream. Now they call being in the flow being in "The Vortex" and there's a new book about the "vortex" but it's exactly the same as all the other books.]]> Multi Level Marketing and Commercial Schemes http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?3,21069,77715#msg-77715 Mon, 19 Oct 2009 03:48:58 +0200 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?3,28477,77412#msg-77412 erniefidanza Multi Level Marketing and Commercial Schemes http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?3,28477,77412#msg-77412 Thu, 08 Oct 2009 12:15:06 +0200 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?3,25144,77034#msg-77034 greg hamond Multi Level Marketing and Commercial Schemes http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?3,25144,77034#msg-77034 Wed, 23 Sep 2009 00:12:06 +0200 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?3,49846,77016#msg-77016 hattah
Hi N Drew
I was hoping you might post again here. You mentioned in another post that you had a letter? Invitation to a Men's Weekend? If I have that right and if you could would you please post it here? Maybe that is asking alot, and if so, I completely understand but sometimes when things are seen in black and white they make an impression.

I totally agree with you and tiggerwil. It may somewhat depend on the personality of the man involved but my gut tells me from what I have read in different places that none of them are likely to spank another guy for doing it. There may well have been a glitch of this kind already...though no one thinks it was anything physical ( not even me). Just an ongoing flirtation.

Of course you don't live half a century without knowing that where there is smoke there is sure to be a flame at some point.

thanks for your input
hattah]]> Multi Level Marketing and Commercial Schemes http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?3,49846,77016#msg-77016 Tue, 22 Sep 2009 18:25:54 +0200 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?3,49846,77009#msg-77009 tiggerwil
i think there are specifics of course, the types of men in the groups, etc.

however they're all being led around like puppy dogs to conform

and i basically believe that if a guy is the type, he will probably cheat if he is already inclined to do so, and if the

group knows, again i think decisions will be made regarding the 1st womans flaws, virtues etc. as to whether or not

it is acceptable.

i have dropped out of my relationship outside of mundane things, we live together and raise our son,

but i maintain that i do not need a mediator in my relationship, i am a participant, not a recipient, and on that basis

i'm not interacting with my guy on a personal level at this time. sad, but true.

i'm not a lab rat for him to test all his "tasks" out on, and right now, i am my sons mom, and that is the only role i

care about right now]]> Multi Level Marketing and Commercial Schemes http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?3,49846,77009#msg-77009 Tue, 22 Sep 2009 15:42:35 +0200 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?3,49846,76995#msg-76995 Nancy Drew Multi Level Marketing and Commercial Schemes http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?3,49846,76995#msg-76995 Mon, 21 Sep 2009 18:48:26 +0200 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?3,49846,76992#msg-76992 hattah

Hi Sparky :)
Actually she is poking around again and I have sent her several things from this site and FactNet that I am hoping will help out. I can see myself that there has always been a 'red flag' flying with her concerning this relationship. I think he sounds 'too good to be true"....and she has enough of the terminology to be wondering what 'kind' of relationship he is looking for with her.

Could you point me to a place here at Ross that answers this question please?

She wants to know:

if The Men think it is okay to have a relationship on the side as long as you don't get caught?

I know I saw this somewhere but cannot find it.]]> Multi Level Marketing and Commercial Schemes http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?3,49846,76992#msg-76992 Mon, 21 Sep 2009 18:09:53 +0200 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?3,1879,76746#msg-76746 trevorheck Multi Level Marketing and Commercial Schemes http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?3,1879,76746#msg-76746 Thu, 10 Sep 2009 05:47:49 +0200 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?3,76690,76690#msg-76690 LaughingCoyote
It all started hiking on the island of Kauaii. In the rainforest I met a woman who was from Canada. I dont remember the exact details but she claimed to be a teacher of tantra or some type of 'new age' ideology. I think it might have been 'her own' but again I dont remember who she was affiliated with. I am sure many of you know the type Im talking about.
She talked me into something called FX Trading and told me it was perfect for 'people like me'. I fell for it.
When I got back from vacation [b]I put $10k into this scam[/b]. It all seemed so legitimate. I had $35k in a college account and I never went to college. I even put $2500 as my MAXIMUM Loss Potential. The brokers name was Nick Sautter and I will never forget his name.
Have you ever seen [b]Boiler Room[/b]? Well I sure wish I had before I gave this bastard 1/3 of my college account. Forgive me please, dad. [b]I was Boiler Roomed[/b].

And what happened? Did I lose $2500 in a week? No. worse. Much worse. He lost the entire $10k account. I dont think it took him more than a few days. And Nick Sautter? Oh, he doesn't work for FX Trading. In fact, FX Trading doesn't even exist, according to Wachovia (The bank in Florida I sent my money to)

It was so embarrassing I couldnt even talk about it. I think corruption like this is crippling the American Economy.
And the SEC? Oh, they actually signed a LAW preventing any private investors from suing these brokers.
I contacted JK Sokolove or whatever his name is. You know, the lawyer on TV. He doesnt care about $10k.]]> Multi Level Marketing and Commercial Schemes http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?3,76690,76690#msg-76690 Mon, 07 Sep 2009 23:27:04 +0200 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?3,44519,76644#msg-76644 shelleyfox Nowadays its getting harder to be identify.. So, my advice is to research and don't jump in easily.. Have a wise thought and decision before you join any program..]]> Multi Level Marketing and Commercial Schemes http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?3,44519,76644#msg-76644 Mon, 07 Sep 2009 06:10:07 +0200