http://forum.rickross.com/list.php?14 EN Sat, 21 Nov 2009 09:11:58 +0100 Sat, 21 Nov 2009 09:11:58 +0100 Destructive Churches Phorum 5.1.25 60 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?14,61939,78876#msg-78876 Mville04 I recorded the show and am now trying to figure out how to post it or send it.]]> Destructive Churches http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?14,61939,78876#msg-78876 Sat, 21 Nov 2009 09:11:58 +0100 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?14,68548,78875#msg-78875 Mville04 I think if I just cut out the commercials I may be able to make it into 4 videos. I don't think there should be a copyright infringement due to it's use as educational material and the proper station credits given.

Let me know what you think.]]> Destructive Churches http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?14,68548,78875#msg-78875 Sat, 21 Nov 2009 09:04:10 +0100 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?14,68548,78874#msg-78874 BraveHeart Destructive Churches http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?14,68548,78874#msg-78874 Sat, 21 Nov 2009 08:22:25 +0100 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?14,68548,78873#msg-78873 JustAsIAm
I caught parts of it and thought it was a fantastic show. Even the people calling in in support of Tony looked rather foolish. Eric Hogue has experienced spiritual abuse and knows the signs. He didn't let any of the supporters get away with just "Tony's a great guy; I got saved at that church" etc. He actually called it a CULT on the air! I wonder how this affects the current lawsuit and the others that are being filed soon? I have to believe it will help a lot!

Pray that those who remain will allow their eyes to be opened and to begin to ask questions. This hiding behind the excuse of "I wasn't affected personally" or "It isn't my drama and I don't want to be involved" has got to stop. Christ did not look meekly on when wrong was being perpetrated on his people.

By the way, if there are any people reading this who still attend RLC you need to wake up to the fact that you WILL NOT recognize this man or his manipulations while you are still involved. How about you use the brain God gave you and ask questions? At least then you'll be making an informed decision, not one that you have been manipulated into.]]> Destructive Churches http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?14,68548,78873#msg-78873 Sat, 21 Nov 2009 07:01:30 +0100 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?14,68548,78872#msg-78872 Mville04 Destructive Churches http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?14,68548,78872#msg-78872 Sat, 21 Nov 2009 06:46:15 +0100 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?14,61939,78867#msg-78867 LearningPoint
A note on predestination: The Scriptures say that those whom He FOREKNEW He predestined to be conformed to the image of Christ. For me, that helps clarify how it seems to work. God didn't eeny-meenie-miney-mo us to salvation or damnation. He merely knew ahead of time how each of us would choose; and those He knew would respond to His call, He THEREFORE predesitned to be placed in that process of being changed into His Son's image. Now, God is sovereign, and I don't pretend to understand fully that tension between sovereign will and free will, but I know that freewill is legit, so God's not making robots. Anyway, I see YOU being conformed to His image, according to His kind intention toward you. THAT'S THE BEST KIND OF NEWS IN THE WORLD!

You might have felt like you were going to fall and fall and fall, but He had (and has) hold of you, dear brother.

With much love in Christ,

LP]]> Destructive Churches http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?14,61939,78867#msg-78867 Sat, 21 Nov 2009 03:44:05 +0100 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?14,68548,78863#msg-78863 Guess Who Destructive Churches http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?14,68548,78863#msg-78863 Sat, 21 Nov 2009 01:37:58 +0100 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?14,68548,78861#msg-78861 Guess Who Destructive Churches http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?14,68548,78861#msg-78861 Sat, 21 Nov 2009 01:05:59 +0100 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?14,68548,78854#msg-78854 Hector_Ragnar Now Tony can not hoodwink everybody in the church all by himself oh no he is not that slick! This is where Tony calls upon his handfull of elders to valadate and strong arm members to submit to Tony. It is just a matter of time and thee will be a class action law suit against SOMA, RADIANT LIFE CHURCH AND TONY CUNNINGHAM.]]> Destructive Churches http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?14,68548,78854#msg-78854 Fri, 20 Nov 2009 17:56:29 +0100 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?14,68548,78848#msg-78848 Hector_Ragnar People need to be on guard testing every teaching against the scripture.
This will be a great show to listen to. By the way do they podcast this show?
Listen for the sycophants calling in to praise & worship Tony]]> Destructive Churches http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?14,68548,78848#msg-78848 Fri, 20 Nov 2009 15:24:07 +0100 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?14,68548,78844#msg-78844 one voice Destructive Churches http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?14,68548,78844#msg-78844 Fri, 20 Nov 2009 03:25:16 +0100 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?14,7041,78841#msg-78841 anotherbrainwashed Destructive Churches http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?14,7041,78841#msg-78841 Thu, 19 Nov 2009 21:25:16 +0100 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?14,7041,78840#msg-78840 databass2001
Wearing jeans for for ACE students was off limits. In YEAR TWO (1979-1980), Barbara, Christine, and another friend changed into t-shirts and jeans after school and were hanging out in front of the church, waiting for their parents to come get them. I overheard much of this because I was serving detention. They were brought into the principal's office to wait. When Barbara's and Christine's mom came in, she was yelling and screaming at all of them. Apparently Barbara's and Christine's mom was caught up in the holy hoopla.

I have often heard that whenever a cult member leaves a cult, the rest of the cult will turn against that person. Some time later, Barbara and Christine withdrew from the ACE school and then left the church. Someone told me that their parents were getting divorced. Someone else went as far as to say, "Barbara is addicted to drugs."

But eventually the cult spread to the entire church. Years later the church eventually split from the Southern Baptist Convention, identifying themselves as "Independent & Fundimental." The church also shared a ministry to teens known as Youth Ranch. The church broke off from the other youth ranches. I remember in a sermon where the pastor discussed why the church does not associate with community events or make any community contributions. From the pulpit, the pastor explained something like, "...(community involvement) makes the world a better place from which to go to hell."

It's funny how things changed. When the cult-like atmosphere spread, most people either got on board or left for another church. And other "likeminded" people joined the church. When I go back home, I don't go back to that church. Last time was in 1999. 2004 if you count my brother's wedding. The Christian school is still there. ACE-free for more than 20 years. The school has a student body of about 175. Although the church still identifies themselves as "Independent & Fundamental" the cult-like atmosphere doesn't seem to exist. Parents send their kids there. But I gravely doubt any of them know the price we had to pay. And the dysfunction we grew up in, many of us to this day still pay the price to for a church to have a Christian school.]]> Destructive Churches http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?14,7041,78840#msg-78840 Thu, 19 Nov 2009 20:45:42 +0100 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?14,7041,78838#msg-78838 databass2001
Making us watch "Deceived" and getting us involved in the Lester Roloff incident (see previous postings) went over the line. As a six-year-old kid I worried about getting thrown in jail. That's too much to put on the shoulders of a child.]]> Destructive Churches http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?14,7041,78838#msg-78838 Thu, 19 Nov 2009 18:36:48 +0100 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?14,13233,78834#msg-78834 zeebrook I only remember Thieme once speaking of his own salvation experience, and that was a long time ago. There was some opposition from his father but do not remember much of the rest of the details. What I do remember is that he did not like people giving a testimony of their salvation when it seemed to revolve around how bad they were and how lucky God was to save them.

Back on the Blood
Stibbs on page 1 in the Preface to the Second Edition states in the very first line "Since this Lecture was delivered in 1947, a good brief summary of the same findings, namely that [b]in Scripture the word 'blood' represents death[/b],..". Believe Stibbs is clear as day on that one, remember first line of the preface to the book.

Stibbs full paragraph states:
Since this Lecture was delivered in 1947, a good brief summary of the same findings, namely that in Scripture the word 'blood' represents death, has been contributed to A Theological Word Book of the Bible (edited by Alan Richardson, S.C.M. Press, 1950) by the Rev. F. J. Taylor in an article on the word 'blood'. A longer exposition, similar in character to this lecture, written by the Rev. L. L. Morris, Ph.D., and introducing several fresh points of scriptural exegesis [b]in direct support of the same conclusion[/b], appeared in The Journal of Theological Studies for October 1952 under the title The Biblical Use of the Term "Blood."

So Stibbs says no ongoing debate, conclusion "[b]in Scripture the word 'blood' represents death[/b]". He says Taylor and Morris have the same conclusion. What was that again "[b]in Scripture the word 'blood' represents death[/b]".

http://www.theologicalstudies.org.uk/pdf/blood_stibbs.pdf

Stibbs concluding paragraph (p32)
In conclusion, therefore, we regretfully disagree with Bishop Westcott (to whose exposition of Scripture we owe so much) and with his many modern disciples, when they say that 'the blood of Christ' signifies His life released through death and thus made available for new uses; and [b]we endorse as right the exegesis and the judgment of those who have said that the phrase 'the blood of Christ' is, like the word 'Cross', 'only a more vivid expression for the death of Christ in its redemptive significance'. 'It connotes the sacrificial death of Christ and all its remedial issues.'[/b]

Still want to argue that Stibbs says its ongoing or that he was in any doubt about the issue or that he was not stating conclusively the point? I doubt it. He is patently clear.]]> Destructive Churches http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?14,13233,78834#msg-78834 Thu, 19 Nov 2009 10:50:53 +0100 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?14,13233,78830#msg-78830 Truthtesty
zeebrook quote: "Again let us be plain, when the scriptures speak of "the blood of Christ" it is a reference to His death upon the cross. The shedding of blood means death as Stibbs conclusively proved in his word. The death of Christ, the shedding of His blood, the blood of Christ all point to His death as the substitute for mankind, that death accepted by God in our behalf that we may have approach unto the Throne of Grace."


Truthtesty: Stibbs produced supporting evidence for his view, but did not conclusively prove that blood means death. The paper(THE MEANING OF THE WORD 'BLOOD'IN SCRIPTURE by
THE REV. A. M. STIBBS, M.A. Vice-Principal, Oak Hill Theological College, London THE TYNDALE NEW TESTAMENT LECTURE, 1947) by Stibbs [u]admits that it is an "ongoing debate[/u]": "[b]The continuance of this debate[/b] makes it apparent how important it is to distinguish between some ideas, which may have been associated with blood in ancient, and indeed in modern times, and the ultimate and distinctive theological meaning given to the term in its use in the
inspired Word of God, and particularly in the apostolic testimony of the New Testament concerning the sacrifice of Christ on the Cross..."

Truthtesty: You need to accurately represent the authors view. The paper is a view with supporting evidence. Stibbs did not "conclusively prove" blood means death.

To me it seems to be "metaphors on steroids" blown out of real proportion.

Jesus clearly spoke of his own literal body and literal blood for the remission of sins. And by body Jesus meant body and by blood Jesus meant blood. Matthew 26:26-28

Though it is figurative in the sense that it is literal blood and literal body sacrificed for the remission of sins. Jesus is definitely referencing His real blood sacrificed as "poured out" and "drink"

Though figuratively drank(for literal salvation) it is still referencing the literal Blood and Body of Jesus sacrificed.

You don't pour death out or drink death.

The reference is Jesus clearly relating salvation to literal blood characteristics. "Poured out" "drinketh"

Truthtesty]]> Destructive Churches http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?14,13233,78830#msg-78830 Thu, 19 Nov 2009 06:14:59 +0100 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?14,13233,78827#msg-78827 Truthtesty
The best I can remember is Thieme spitting some prejudiced venom about others having an "experience" of being saved.

I don't remember him ever saying something like "I was saved while..."


Truthtesty]]> Destructive Churches http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?14,13233,78827#msg-78827 Thu, 19 Nov 2009 05:34:42 +0100 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?14,68548,78821#msg-78821 one voice Destructive Churches http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?14,68548,78821#msg-78821 Thu, 19 Nov 2009 04:18:18 +0100 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?14,61939,78817#msg-78817 TruthAfterDisillusionment
I would like to announce this is my new account, because I lost my password to not only my last account, but to my email as well. So I am starting a new one.

This is Conner. I wanted to first start out by explaining my new name, although it may be self evident I would like to get detailed. I choose this name because of the love and freedom I have found in Christ. There have been many shortcomings, and I have realized just how sinful I am when I let myself loose, that when I am not on the leash of what the people of TPC care about me, I am able to fall without judgement, and get up without criticism. I have found the truth, and the disillusionment is still trying to impact my life choices.

And I wanted to state and talk about what is happening with the RLC news paper article.

I was so happy when I read it, every word of destruction bringing a sense of clarity. I was grateful, very grateful. She did an amazing job, and held no punches. I can only hope it won't take that for TPC to bring themselves to the light. So as to not give Christianity a worse name, they do a good job of that already.

It is sad to see people loose faith in God, but it is easy to see who's faith was in God in the first place. Although that does not make the pain of loosing a brother or sister in the Lord anymore difficult, it might have served to say...they might not have been saved if their faith wasn't in God.

Now I don't know if predestination is or is not true. I believe that sometimes it seems to answer questions, just as free will seems to answer questions. Where is the line. I don't know and beyond an intellectual curiosity I couldn't care less (i did steal that line from Justin peters)

What does matter is that many people will be hurt. I hope to be there for them. They might not trust me, and I hope they don't it would be my privilege to show them a life, sinful, yet still pleasing to God, because of Christ in me.

They will see no fancy prayers, no worship that makes you feel guilty if you don't jump up and down like a robot of the youth church century, no having to be somebody your not, no wacky people yelling in tongues.

Just what Christ did, live the gospel. Be an example of hard work, love, and integrity.

I now work for UPS as a part-time driver helper. My driver is one if the not most hard working, loving people I have met.

He has more compassion than a pastor and works harder than one too, yet he is the one living a life that is modest and conservative.

Well thats all for now.
TAD]]> Destructive Churches http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?14,61939,78817#msg-78817 Thu, 19 Nov 2009 03:21:17 +0100 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?14,61939,78771#msg-78771 ostracizedone ANNIVERSARY OF AN HISTORIC DAY IN FALSE CHRISTIANITY,FALSE PROPHETIC, APOSTOLIC MINISTRY WITH MONEY,POWER,POLITICAL GAIN MASKED AS A LOVING CARING GIVING ENTITY.........SCARY]]> Destructive Churches http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?14,61939,78771#msg-78771 Wed, 18 Nov 2009 16:16:52 +0100 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?14,13233,78758#msg-78758 kcjones
Does anyone know or remember what Bob Thieme's testimony was, how he got "saved"? Did he ever share it?

KCjones]]> Destructive Churches http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?14,13233,78758#msg-78758 Tue, 17 Nov 2009 21:13:33 +0100 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?14,57640,78752#msg-78752 BraveHeart I know that Greg covered up for Tony, when Tony Cunningham sued Buzz Oats and his spin then was "don't read the news paper article, there are evil people out there that are trying to discredit the 'man of God' (Tony). So based upon his past track record most likely this goofy bastard is spinning it the same way. People like Greg Huth and his mystic wife Kelli, they are just a guilty as Tony Cunningham and his mentally abused wife Rose Cunningham who has to accept Tony living with his spiritual daughter Veronica. This whole Spiritual Daughter thing is so corrupt!!! It looks like the old Mormon Polygamy.....(After All, Why Just Have One!)

Radiant Life is a CULT!

When Greg posts this stupid comment on his blog site
[size=small][i]Monday, November 16, 2009
Posted by Greg Huth at 12:45 PM [sub]0 comments[/sub]

Not even an iota...
It comes down to this: I want to know my Lord. Nothing else -- reputation, relationships, giftings, possessions -- compares... not even an iota...[/i]
[/size]
Then he backs up his mangled twisted position by quoting (Philippians 3: 7-14) to try and justify his cult leaders position. (I'm sad for you Greg)

Greg You are the guy who is assisting Tony in tarnishing the reputation of Christ by allowing this behavior to keep on going, going on in the back rooms of your church that is now a full blown cult!
As an elder of Radiant Life cult, you are responsible for the many, many relationships that have been spiritually abused and hurt by your manipulative coercive counseling and repeating Tony's teachings. You mix in the occultist mysticism into your dumb ass prophetic prophecy...Just how many marriages have you and your mystic wife coerced into divorce?

Go ahead and fall on a sword for Tony you will only be remembered and being a goofy bastard sycophant who enabled Tony,
Then Tony will be so quick to demonize you.

You people are headed towards another "JonesTown."
YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!]]> Destructive Churches http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?14,57640,78752#msg-78752 Tue, 17 Nov 2009 11:08:41 +0100 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?14,68548,78749#msg-78749 Paul74
1. Where did the fleet of vehicles Tony Cunningham received come from? Who really owns the vehicles that only he and his family utilize? If they belonged to the church, then why wasn't that reported to the church leadership (why was it hidden?)?
2. Where did the tens (perhaps hundreds) of thousands of dollars that were given to the church (Tony's personal projects) for developing orphanages, feeding programs, and planting churches (in Africa, India, and the Philippines) go? Were they used for these purposes as reported by Tony?
3. Were the tens of thousands of dollars, given as personal tithes to Tony, reported to state and/or federal tax authorities as income?
4. Did Tony use his influence as a spiritual leader (Pastor) with young church congregants to entice them into entering risky business relationships with him?

Perhaps these questions will be answered in further installments by the Bee or other newspapers, or news organizations.

Truly a message must be sent to other unscrupulous people that this type of activity will not remain unchallanged.]]> Destructive Churches http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?14,68548,78749#msg-78749 Tue, 17 Nov 2009 02:23:45 +0100 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?14,77038,78746#msg-78746 Transparent
wow dude!

never knew that you had received an email from J.Richards about your postings. All I can say is that it is sickening to my stomach still of how many people still are dedicated to the ever spreading disease that Tony has poured out. The marriages that have dissolved, the families that have been torn apart and the children that have been manipulated and so forth... I remember when I read the first posting on this site and it that was it... It spread and kept going and I am thankful for those who have left the slaughter house, in reality it is a slaughter house. Once again to all that have come onto the forum to say that we are the ones that are messed up in the head because we do not kiss Tony's @ss, oh well... I really don't care. You RLC lifers are just like your father Tony and that is very heartbreaking. Well Sunday's article was a relief to read, thanks to all that kept posting and posting and posting. To those that are still sucked in I sure do ask that your eyes would be open, you do not need a man to lead you... In all truth you need God to lead you in every way. The word of God was misused for mans own pleasure and many people were hurt and continue to experience the hurt. I myself am a broken man, I have found myself in Hell and I have found myself now in his arms being accepted. So I just ask God to bring healing to those that are still feeling the hurt, those still feeling the effects of the perverted gospel... you all take care!

Antonio
aka Transparent]]> Destructive Churches http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?14,77038,78746#msg-78746 Mon, 16 Nov 2009 21:46:06 +0100 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?14,61939,78745#msg-78745 nooneofanyimportence Destructive Churches http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?14,61939,78745#msg-78745 Mon, 16 Nov 2009 20:50:54 +0100 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?14,61939,78744#msg-78744 LearningPoint
Yes, it takes time to get back on our feet--for some of us it will take a while to be able to stomach darkening the doors of a church again--but I hate to see anyone come to a final conclusion that's not in line with God's Word, which was given to guide and protect our lives. It was not knowing or not remaining in the truth at TP that got us all in trouble in the first place. (I so regret that!) I don't want to keep making that same mistake over and over. And honestly, if it wasn't for that one verse in Hebrews, I'd be set on Lone-Rangering it with God. But the verse IS there, so I felt I should put it out there for your consideration.

Anyway, I wanted to apologize if the tone of that last post sounded like I was "talking down" to people. I wrote it in haste and was feeling very earnest about us all standing in the truth together. I need you all; I have NOT "arrived" in any sense of the word. I'm still struggling with the aftermath of TP.]]> Destructive Churches http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?14,61939,78744#msg-78744 Mon, 16 Nov 2009 20:21:08 +0100 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?14,61939,78743#msg-78743 Brokenhearted
One reason we statyed at TP for so long was for our children...and they are a big factor in why we left. But kids are resiliant! My kids rarely talk about TP, or their experiences there. They don't compare our "new" church to our "old" church (something I've caught myself doing on a regular basis). They love the Lord, they trust Him, and they seek His truth. They've developed relationships, and community.

This is my prayer for you (and me). That we could be child-like in our faith, and look to God for the answers, and for comfort in our pain. That we would be hopeful like children, and resilliant. That we would love, and sing, and dance, and continue to move forward.....]]> Destructive Churches http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?14,61939,78743#msg-78743 Mon, 16 Nov 2009 19:56:28 +0100 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?14,13233,78741#msg-78741 Truthtesty “But, to bring forward examples of Gentiles also; many kings and rulers, when some season of pestilence pressed upon them, being taught by oracles have delivered themselves over to death, [b]that they might rescue their fellow citizens through their own bloo[/b]d. Many have retired from their own cities, that they might have no more seditions.”
The emphasised section shows it is metaphorical. They were delivered by the death not by literally through their own physical blood but by their death.[/quote]

Truthtesty: lol wrong. You are confusing me with James Barr's reprimand of nazi doktor Gerhard Kittle. I am using the definitions AND categorizations and specific contexts(if you care to actually read all of Ardnt and Gingrich)according to Ardnt and Gingrich. They describe the brief context in each verse, but all in that category say "b) figurative" have a consistent meaning. So for "b) figurative" the consistent meaning is “blood and life as an expiatory sacrifice 1Cl 55:1---Esp of the blood of Jesus as means of expiation” in each brief description of the verse and it's context. Ardnt and Gingrich are saying BLOOD IS FIGURATIVE BECAUSE IT IS BOTH LITERAL BLOOD AND LITERAL LIFE which are an expiatory sacrifice NOT JUST LITERAL BLOOD ALONE in the contexts of 1 Cl 55:1, Rom 3:25 etc... And? Try fitting "spiritual death only" in 1 Cl 55:1. Lol it won't work and that's one reason why Thieme probably did not include 1 Cl 55:1. Obvious hypocrasy. It doesn't work and it would be a comparison which people could compare and contrast with Rom. 3:25 and see Thieme's falsehood on every reference to Jesus' blood as being "spiritual death only". It's Thieme taking every mentioning of Blood of Christ out of context and falsely replacing it with "spiritual death only", not me. I look at the contex try to prove otherwise you false accuser. But? Thieme said AS PROOF let me QUOTE. Thieme did NOT QUOTE. Thieme falsely paraphrased and still got it wrong. Sure I have left information out because of space and time, but never in a QUOTE in my proofs! Again you are completely falsifying when you say "They were delivered by the death not by literally through their own physical blood but by their death." Hello? Here is a thiemites who will lie cheat deceive and use any means false to defend his her cult leader Thieme. What does it say z? “blood and life as an expiatory sacrifice 1Cl 55:1---Esp of the blood of Jesus as means of expiation”. Ardnt and Gingrich are saying BLOOD IS FIGURATIVE BECAUSE IT IS BOTH LITERAL BLOOD AND LITERAL LIFE which are an expiatory sacrifice NOT JUST LITERAL BLOOD ALONE in 1 Cl 55:1, Rom 3:25 etc...
Hello? Do you understand? I think you do and just enjoy sadistically irritating beyond reason, as I have seen thiemites do this before in their broken down sodini-like imploded skeleton disrespect for logic state of personality. Broken down by the "possesion" of Thieme in their reptilian fight or flight response because they have an imploded skeleton personality they "copy" what the personality of what possesses them - Thieme - and other gentile authority figures to survive.

z quote: Thieme most probably elided the reference given that it is not a canonical reference. Scholars do it all the time and even Truthtesty has dropped parts of quotes that are not entirely relevant to the discussion so you cannot hang Thieme on that one.

Truthtesty: Sure I can. As I already explained, Thieme "hung" himself when he deceived. Thieme(paraphrasing) said as proof let me quote. Now either he is incompetent or a liar or both so take your pick.

z quote: Truthtesty said quote: For part 1 above the virgin birth comes to mind, gee would that have some effect on literal blood DNA? Would G-d's dna make the literal Shed blood of Jesus, precious? If not why not? If so are you denying the virgin birth to say the literal Shed Precious Blood is not Precious? Unlike ours? I think so. Also if you deny the virgin birth then who was the Father of Jesus, if it wasn't Joseph? unquote

God’s DNA? What is that? God is not a man etc He does not have DNA what we have in our Lord Jesus Christ is true humanity, pure human blood not some sort of quasi God/human mix. One can take the Chalcedonian Creed which defines the kenosis of Christ as

one and the same Christ, Son, Lord, only begotten, to be acknowledged in two natures, [b]inconfusedly[/b], unchangeably, indivisibly, inseparably; the distinction of natures being by no means taken away by the union, but rather the property of each nature being preserved, and concurring in one Person and one Subsistence, not parted or divided into two persons, but one and the same Son, and only begotten, God the Word, the Lord Jesus Christ;

Truthtesty: Completely off the wall. You can see the two natures as a G-d man/mix but not the physical blood as a G-d man/mix? Answer my question, how did the Virgin Mary get pregnant by G-d if there wasn't something "PHYSICAL"! to get her pregnant?! CRAZY! Did she impregnate herself?! Gee no that would not work because the Virgin Mary was not a WORM! only worms can do that. The virgin birth was necessary to avoid Adamic spiritual seperation from G-d and its inevitable eventual effects ofand on the physical body/blood/DNA. To describe G-d as limited to the spiritual realm and to deny G-d the ability to "be" in the "physical" realm is just a crazy sodini-like denial of reality. G-d created the physical realm! If he said Mary is to be pregnant with my son, then she was and it was G-d's intervention into the physical.

z quote: Our Lord Jesus had true human blood the shedding of which defines His death.

Truthtesty: hah "true human blood" where's your theory on that? Minus the Adamic, Jesus had the "original" G-d/human blood body spirit and soul ALL of which had their original creation characteristics ALL in contact in every perfect relation(physical/spiritual/and realms we cannot fathom) with G-d, as by design, And? IT WAS GOOD, even the eternal physical blood. But? It was not like our corrupt blood. Now? If you want to deny the theophany of Jesus was G-d? That is up to you.

z quote: How can you equate the acceptance of Jesus have pure human blood with a denial of the virgin birth? Of course Jesus is born of Mary, a virgin birth, but that does not prove His blood was a God/man mix which is what you seem to be implying in your use of the term “precious blood”. His blood was precious because only His death is the acceptable one to God for the sins of mankind.

Truthtesty: That is a limited false theory, and it is not supported by the blood types requirements of the Old Testament, nor Jesus' G-d/man physical blood of reality of the virgin birth. According to the "literal blood" types of the Old Testament to their "literal blood" anti-types of the New Testament,
G-d required literal blood and it had to be SHOWN. It was not good enough to bleed the passover lamb in private the literal blood had to be SHOWN. That's how important the literal blood is to G-d.


Truthtesty]]> Destructive Churches http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?14,13233,78741#msg-78741 Mon, 16 Nov 2009 11:50:13 +0100 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?14,61939,78740#msg-78740 LearningPoint
Hebrews 10
[b]23Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful[/b]. 24And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds. [b]25Let us not give up meeting together,[/b] as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching.]]> Destructive Churches http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?14,61939,78740#msg-78740 Mon, 16 Nov 2009 05:09:05 +0100 http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?14,13233,78738#msg-78738 zeebrook “But, to bring forward examples of Gentiles also; many kings and rulers, when some season of pestilence pressed upon them, being taught by oracles have delivered themselves over to death, [b]that they might rescue their fellow citizens through their own bloo[/b]d. Many have retired from their own cities, that they might have no more seditions.”
The emphasised section shows it is metaphorical. They were delivered by the death not by literally through their own physical blood but by their death. Thieme most probably elided the reference given that it is not a canonical reference. Scholars do it all the time and even Truthtesty has dropped parts of quotes that are not entirely relevant to the discussion so you cannot hang Thieme on that one.

Truthtesty said quote: For part 1 above the virgin birth comes to mind, gee would that have some effect on literal blood DNA? Would G-d's dna make the literal Shed blood of Jesus, precious? If not why not? If so are you denying the virgin birth to say the literal Shed Precious Blood is not Precious? Unlike ours? I think so. Also if you deny the virgin birth then who was the Father of Jesus, if it wasn't Joseph? unquote

God’s DNA? What is that? God is not a man etc He does not have DNA what we have in our Lord Jesus Christ is true humanity, pure human blood not some sort of quasi God/human mix. One can take the Chalcedonian Creed which defines the kenosis of Christ as

one and the same Christ, Son, Lord, only begotten, to be acknowledged in two natures, [b]inconfusedly[/b], unchangeably, indivisibly, inseparably; the distinction of natures being by no means taken away by the union, but rather the property of each nature being preserved, and concurring in one Person and one Subsistence, not parted or divided into two persons, but one and the same Son, and only begotten, God the Word, the Lord Jesus Christ;

Our Lord Jesus had true human blood the shedding of which defines His death.

How can you equate the acceptance of Jesus have pure human blood with a denial of the virgin birth? Of course Jesus is born of Mary, a virgin birth, but that does not prove His blood was a God/man mix which is what you seem to be implying in your use of the term “precious blood”. His blood was precious because only His death is the acceptable one to God for the sins of mankind.]]> Destructive Churches http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?14,13233,78738#msg-78738 Mon, 16 Nov 2009 01:57:45 +0100