Cult Education Forum

"When He Started Falling Asleep I Quit"


One can learn a lot by putting the word therapists or therapist or psychotherapy into the search slot on an old Google listserve for ex-SY devotees. These discussions began in the late 1990s and remain valuable reading to this day.

ChelseaB wrote:Jun 15 1998, 12:00 am

For some reason your comments about therapists in sy made me think of
something. As most of you know from my story I was told to go a therapist and
given the name of someone. This person did not really want me to go to him.
Although a staunch devotee, he convinced himself that gm herself was the only
real thing in sy. Everything and everyone around her (her staff) were all
corrupt, but not her. Therefore, he thought the "command" to go for therapy
was fabricated by her corrupt staff since it didn't come out of her mouth
directly. In retrospect, I think he was doing mental handstands so he didn't
have to face the truth about gm.

the nature of "therapy" revolved totally around the harassment I was
undergoing. That was all we talked about. And he kept encouraging me to try
to see that gm was omniscient, etc. and all these others including umesh might
be corrupt. At first it appealed to my need to believe in sy but over time as
the harassment got worse, and he got more and more squirmy over it, he started
to project on me that I wanted him to leave sy. (The thought never occured to
me. What occured to me was the $95 I was paying per hour for support.) When
he started falling asleep, I quit.


I sent him a letter sometime after I quit going for therapy, telling him of my
disatisfaction in the final days of him being my therapist.
By then I had left sy and felt I had found a new community of school buddies
who were not in sy. He called and said I should come in person to talk to
him, not through a letter. I really had nothing more to say, but felt
manipulated in a sense, as if he was insulting my decison to approach him in
writing, as if that showed some kind of problem in me. So my pride agreed to
go. He said to come at 1pm a couple of weeks later. He called me a day or so
later and said it needed to be 12pm so I said ok.


I showed up at 12pm and his door was closed to his office while I waited in the
waiting room. I could hear him chanting softly so I thought at first he had
a client with him. Then I thought he might be chanting by himself. Then
paranoia took over as the time ticked by 10 min, 20 min, 30 min. and I thought
he must be purifying the room. you know, building up the shakti to protect
himself from my negativity (negativity being I left sy.) This irked me and
made me want to leave but I knew he'd construe my leaving as a "problem" I had,
my pride kept me sitting there. I was just wondering what to do, whether to
knock on his door, or just get up and leave when he came out of his office.
He broke into this bizarre thing where he acted like he was in danger saying
things like, "What are you doing here? How long have you been sitting here?"
It was very dramatic. I sat there feeling like a criminal who just broke in.
I reminded him we had a 12pm appointment but he said we had a 1pm. He looked
in his book and saw me at 1pm so he said I was mistaken but that was okay (very
patronizing of him.) I insisted I was NOT mistaken; he had called to
change it and that's a fact. I told him he must have forgot to change his book
and forgotton that he had called me. he patronized me further, acting like I
had a problem insisting the mistake was his and not mine.


As I said, I had nothing to say so we sat in silence for a few moments. Then
he said, "Look, the fact is I'm not leaving sy." I don't remember my response
but after about 5 minutes I left saying I had nothing to say.





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[groups.google.com]


As most of you know from my story I was told to go a therapist and
given the name of someone. This person did not really want me to go to him.

Although a staunch devotee, he convinced himself that gm (Gurumayi)herself was the only
real thing in sy. Everything and everyone around her (her staff) were all
corrupt, but not her.

Therefore, he thought the "command" to go for therapy
was fabricated by her corrupt staff since it didn't come out of her mouth
directly. In retrospect, I think he was doing mental handstands so he didn't
have to face the truth about gm.

the nature of "therapy" revolved totally around the harassment I was
undergoing. That was all we talked about. And he kept encouraging me to try
to see that gm was omniscient, etc. and all these others including umesh might
be corrupt. At first it appealed to my need to believe in sy but over time as
the harassment got worse, and he got more and more squirmy over it, he started
to project on me that I wanted him to leave sy. (The thought never occured to
me. What occured to me was the $95 I was paying per hour for support.)

When he started falling asleep, I quit.

I sent him a letter sometime after I quit going for therapy, telling him of my
disatisfaction in the final days of him being my therapist.

By then I had left sy and felt I had found a new community of school buddies
who were not in sy. He called and said I should come in person to talk to
him, not through a letter.

I really had nothing more to say, but felt
manipulated in a sense, as if he was insulting my decison to approach him in
writing, as if that showed some kind of problem in me. So my pride agreed to
go.

He said to come at 1pm a couple of weeks later. He called me a day or so
later and said it needed to be 12pm so I said ok.

I showed up at 12pm and his door was closed to his office while I waited in the
waiting room. I could hear him chanting softly so I thought at first he had
a client with him. Then I thought he might be chanting by himself. Then
paranoia took over as the time ticked by 10 min, 20 min, 30 min. and I thought
he must be purifying the room. you know, building up the shakti to protect
himself from my negativity (negativity being I left sy.)

This irked me and made me want to leave but I knew he'd construe my leaving as a "problem" I had,
my pride kept me sitting there. I was just wondering what to do, whether to
knock on his door, or just get up and leave when he came out of his office.

He broke into this bizarre thing where he acted like he was in danger saying
things like, "What are you doing here? How long have you been sitting here?"
It was very dramatic. I sat there feeling like a criminal who just broke in.

I reminded him we had a 12pm appointment but he said we had a 1pm.

He looked in his book and saw me at 1pm so he said I was mistaken but that was okay (very
patronizing of him.)

I insisted I was NOT mistaken; he had called to
change it and that's a fact. I told him he must have forgot to change his book
and forgotton that he had called me. he patronized me further, acting like I
had a problem insisting the mistake was his and not mine.

As I said, I had nothing to say so we sat in silence for a few moments. Then
he said, "Look, the fact is I'm not leaving sy." I don't remember my response
but after about 5 minutes I left saying I had nothing to say.

[groups.google.com]

( small excerpt from An Open Letter by Dan Shaw)

The ashram staff is overworked and mistreated. Endless days and nights
of work are required of ashramites for barely any pay or benefits; crowded,
substandard living conditions with no privacy are typical; and sudden
banishments of people who worked hard and served faithfully for years are
common. A number of these people who were thrown out of the ashram by Gurumayi
were then told by her that they owe her thousands of dollars for their time
with her. Sadly, there are people who are sending her the money she has
demanded.


- Many of Gurumayi's staff suffer from depression, eating disorders,
addictions, and other serious emotional disturbances. Gurumayi has been
quietly sending numerous staff members and devotees to therapists and long-term
treatment facilities. What is not acknowledged is that long-term exposure to
the unhealthy dependency of ashram life and to the relentless emotional and
physical demands Gurumayi makes of her staff plays a major role in their ill
health. Ashramites usually ascribe this to the never-ending purification
process they believe they must experience in order to better serve their guru.


- Gurumayi has sent many ashramites to therapists who are devotees. Some
of these therapists violate their professional ethics and the confidentiality
of their patients by reporting the contents of these sessions to Gurumayi, at
her request. Some of us have witnessed Gurumayi, on numerous occasions,
laughing derisively with these therapists at the clinical material being
presented.


- Gurumayi


Dan Shaw later wrote

[groups.google.com]

However, I would like to make it clear to the readers of this newsgroup that I
participate here because I have benefitted from the support I receive from
others here (Matrka stated this on my behalf recently and I confirm it). I've
received this support in many forms, including criticism and sharp debate.


I also participate here because I believe this forum and the LSY website are
the most widely available places where it is possible to speak freely and
openly about SY without the information being controlled by SY.


I would like to clarify, for the record, that I am not here in any professional
capacity, nor do I seek to drum up business here.


I have never become the psychotherapist of anyone I have spoken to about SY on
the internet, nor will I. I'm clear about professional boundaries and I make
every effort not to cross them.


If I am referred a client who is a SY devotee, I will refer this patient to
another therapist who is not a devotee. I do not consider myself capable of
the necessary neutrality to conduct any kind of therapy with someone who is a
SY devotee, or even, in most cases, with someone who was a SY devotee.


By contrast, the professional pshychotherapy conferences held at the South
Fallsburg SY ashram offer special segments informing therapists about how they
can speak to their clients about Siddha Yoga - which is in fact a professional
ethical violation. These conferences are primarily aimed at helping therapists
recruit their patients to become SY devotees.

It is interesting to note that Billy G ran into someone who was told to leave
SY and sent to a devotee therapist. This happens quite frequently. Devotee
therapists are enlisted by SY to work with devotees with problems, under the
agreement that the therapist will defend SY and work on behalf of SY to
suppress whatever negativity the devotee has about SY. (bolded for emphasis by Corboy)

This is mind control in its purest form.

Because my essay on cults is on most databases and comes up when you use the
keyword cult, I receive a lot of email from people. I refer them to this
newsgroup if they are in SY, or to the American Family Foundation (AFF) if
their concerns are not SY-related.

I am not an exit counselor, nor do I wish to be one. I have participated in
one exit attempt, and on three occasions, spoken on the phone, at no charge, to
friends of devotees who were concerned about their loved ones.


I occasionally receive referrals from the Cult Clinic of the Jewish Board for
Family and Childrens' Services, in Manhattan. Out of about six referrals I
received from them in the last 3 years, one of these people paid me for
consulting services (not psychotherapy). I spoke to the other people who were
referred to me on the phone, for free, not as a psychotherapist, but as a
former devotee. 99.99% of the very minimal amount of work I do around cults is
work I have done for free, as a former devotee.

I make my living as a psychoanalyst, not as an exit counselor or therapist
specializing in cult issues. I have never worked as a therapist with a SY
member or ex-member, nor will I.

It would probably be a better move for me professionally to conceal my status
as an ex SY member (not that I go around everywhere disclosing it). I have not
concealed it because I believe that the issue of cult mind control is one that
needs to be brought more into awareness in the professional therapy community,
and in society as a whole.

Thanks,

***************
Shaw...@aol.com (Daniel Shaw)



Another person wrote

[groups.google.com]

And this is what happens when an abused devotee is sent to a therapist who is also a devotee and emotionally vested in seeing the guru as all-good and therefore cannot face the truth that this guru is abusing the therapists client. A therapist who splits off evidence of abusive behavior on the part of a leader cannot be of any assistance to persons being abused by that leader.


ChelseaBW View profile
More options Jun 15 1998, 12:00 am

Newsgroups: alt.support.ex-cult.siddha-yoga
From: chelse...@aol.com (ChelseaBW)
Date: 1998/06/15
Subject: Re: More thoughts on this sunny Sunday
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>people become "split" in this way.
>They have their ashram persona, and then they have the real life persona, and
>instead of integrating and growing from where they start out, the real growth
>gets suspended in favor of putting on a saintly persona. Then, when they
>come back to real life there is still the mess to be dealth with, which makes
>taking refuge in sy even more attractive. BTW, I am saying this not as a
>judgemental bystander but as someone who has fallen into that very trap.


Yes, I was speaking from my own experience (ha, ha!) also, Megha. I am so
happy about my growth since leaving sy. I wouldn't trade it for what life was
like in sy. The community was nice (what community? Oh, yeah, the illusion
of community), the idea that Jesus was alive in gm was nice (I said IDEA).
But there is so much in my life since leaving that I can't understand sometimes
in my current state of mind what it was I liked about sy.

I think in all honesty it was simply my longing for God that drew me there.
And I've still got that.




>Also, I find it telling that gm (Gurumayi) is so inconsistent in her stance on therapy.
>At the same time that she sends her staff members to therapy, she will often
>put it down in her talks. Remember references to weak-minded and promiscuous
>people who go from therapy to therapy, have their auras read, get their
>chakras balanced. etc? Real psychotherapy/counseling gets lumped in
with
>some of the fringe new-age stuff, and thereby discredited. At the same time,
>she is sending people to therapists and using the therapists as spies and
>recruiters. Pretty sick.

>Thanks,
>Megha



For some reason your comments about therapists in sy made me think of



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