Cult Education Forum

Why on earth can he not use the medium we are?!?!

Hmmmm, seems to be he needs the power to shut us up that the phone grants a user.

As I am Britain, I would appriciate my questions being answered here. 3 of us have posed serious questions already.

Would someone please ask for me, the names of these scientists? Also how he can claim there is no dogma nor doctrines. If he still claim there are none, by what does he call/label the protocols we have all read?

Why oh why are these guys so uptight?! Some carpet work needs to be done... (this is not disrespectful - it is playing, disrespectful is enticing someone to spend up to $600 without telling them the whole deal)

Men change in MKP, and that's what they want, however not for the better. I was a member of MKP for 3 years before I left. MKP claims that they heal marriages, but I didn't see one marriage healed, unless the wife went also to the brainwashing sister organization for MKP, WWI.

In response to What2do, yes I am willing to be respectful. And I'm sorry you've had a bad experience with MKP men being disrespectful to you.

I set up this conference call through www.freeconference.com.

You dial the phone number. Based on freeconference.com's system, your call will be routed through Iowa so there will be long distance charges. You might want to use a calling card or something to minimize your charges. You'll have to enter the access code to get onto the conference call.

Also, I have reserved one hour and there is a limit of 10 spaces on the call.

I chose a teleconference because I thought it would be the easiest way for us to communicate and have a dialogue. Quite frankly, I do not have the time or energy to respond to multiple questions on this list. I underestimated the response and questions I would receive.

Thank you for your consideration.

I look forward to our conversation on Wednesay, May17th, at 3 pm EST.

Looking forward to feedback from those that participate in the conference call regarding MKP.

It will be interesting to learn how this worked out.

Anyone involved please feel free to post your impressions on the board and let everyone know how it went.

Regarding the moderator's question about seeking MKP vs. a licensed professional: I can give you one man's perspective on this; I do not profess to speak for anyone else.

Just to be transparent: I'm currently the Centre Director for MKP-Windsor/Detroit, so I've obviously had good experiences with MKP. I'm also a good friend of Tim's & have known and worked with him a lot during the 5 years since I took MKP's training.

In a nutshell: I found that 16 years of the conventional approach just didn't help me. On the other hand, I experienced a whole lot of progress in my life with MKP in a relatively short time (several months). After 5 years I continue to experience positive changes that impact my daily life enormously. For me, MKP has been MORE bang for my buck than conventional therapy.

My background includes:
- Over 16 years of conventional therapy on an almost weekly basis.
- I was paying out-of-pocket for most of that, since my insurance didn't cover the costs.
- I had at least 5 different counselors during that period (I lived in 3 different places). Some were MSW's, some were PhDs; I counseled with both men and women.
- I was struggling with a bunch of issues, including chronic depression and poor self-esteem, and I NEVER experienced what I would call significant relief with any of my counselors. (Yes, I had some temporary relief periodically, but nothing lasting).
- One counselor early on suggested I check out men's groups, but I was extremely resistant to the idea - I really didn't trust that such groups could help me in any way - so I didn't take her advice.

So after years of trying things the conventional way, I finally decided to stop "banging my head against the wall" and try something different. I checked out a couple other approaches, such as Recovery Inc., but found they didn't quite fit for me. Then an acquaintance suggested MKP, and I decided to give it a try.

I got a lot out of MKPs training and have continued to use what I've learned to overcome long-standing issues - bit by bit - over the last 5 years. The quality of my life is enormously better these days!

And just as good, I'm no longer paying for therapy - I decided after a few months that my weekly I-Group was much more productive for me than any professional therapy, so I stopped going. Granted, my case is unusual. Most guys I know DO stay in therapy of some kind (or AA, NA, etc) if they were already in it before taking MKP's training. MKP is NOT a substitute for therapy, and I would not advocate that anyone stop therapy just because that's what I chose to do.

So my personal experience is that trained, educated, licensed professionals were not able to help me, whereas a bunch of unlicensed men helped me tremendously - and more importantly taught me how to help myself. Years of experience has convinced me which approach is more effective -- for me.

So I agree, time IS valuable - in my opinion, too valuable to have continued with conventional therapies that were not, over 16 years, productive or effective for me.

That's my story... and thanks for spending YOUR valuable time reading my words.

Quote:

rrmoderator
And why would someone seek help in their life from MP rather than a more safe and conventional approach through a licensed professional?

A licensed professional would seem better qualified, educated, accountable and less problematic in dealing with personal issues, such as those identified, explored and examined through an MP weekend.

Why do you think a man should give his valuable time to MP rather than spend that same time more conventionally with a licensed marriage and family therapist or through individual or group therapy with a clinical psychologist?

Doesn't that make more sense time-wise and practically?

Time is valuable, so woldn't it be more proudctive and safe for someone concerned about personal issues to schedule scarce and valuable time with a qualified professional licensed in their rather than a philosophical group like MP?

Quote:

So I agree, time IS valuable - in my opinion, too valuable to have continued with conventional therapies that were not, over 16 years, productive or effective for me.

Fair enough. Every personal growth organization must have some intrinsic value or it would cease to exist in short order. In some cases there does appear to be a virtuous dynamic between the individual and the organization. This very much depends on the inner resourcefulness of the individual and the psychodynamic nature of the organization (on what basis are you valued or devalued as a member ?) , as well as the basic presuppositions that organization makes about what is the true nature of reality ( say, the implicit blurring of physics and metaphysics in Scientology and Landmark)...

If it works for you, and you can say that you are congruently bettered,
you can associate with equal grace with in-group people and out-group people, you don't feel compelled to use a private vocabulary or jargon,
and of particular importance, you don't feel or sense that you have taken on any unfamiliar obsessions or compulsions (to proselytise, "enroll", or behave in uncharateristic patterns, etc..) and probably of greatest importance, if you feel that your life has gained in breadth and depth...

More power to you. Why not ?

The warning signs, IMHO, are the "path through the ever narrowing canyon syndome"... where one finds onself in an ever deeper, more claustrophobic commitment with only a slender wiew of the sky directly overhead and high psychological walls on either side... the "talking in tongues syndrome" where certain subject matter, discussed in an unconventional vocabulary, or using non standard grammars and syntax are encouraged, and other subjects are tacitly discouraged, or the HDO problems of "donating" time, labor, money, or pieces of your soul (and ultimately self respect) to something that has been defined (well in advance) as The Cause...

I suppose some will perceive the above conditions as a good thing and others as a bad thing.... ultimately, this is a free will world we live in, and if that is where your free will has taken you, and you are better for it, (and you feel, to the core of your being, that you could leave if that perception changes) then you're doing the right thing for your life conditions at this moment.

dscat:

Glad to hear things have worked out for you.

But it is safer to attend therapy sessions with a trained professional that has state licensing.

This can also be paid at times by insurance.

More importantly there is a standard of care, accountability and qualifications required.

MKP may say it is not therapy, but much of what they do can easily be seen as an attempt to conduct group therapy.

You state "And if a marriage is strong, I think it encourages growth and change and honesty. " When a man goes through a weekend of denial of food, sleep, wedding rings, phones, etc. and is put through an intense weekend of LGAT, and then told he has to give an "oath" of secrecy, how does that encourage honesty in a relationship????????????????????? I see you breaking your own integrity with this one!!!!!!!

Quote:

Tim Batdorf
I was the Board Chairman for the Mankind Project in the Windsor-Detroit Centre for two years from January 1994 to January 1996. I would be happy to answer any questions anyone may have about the Mankind Project.
MKP sponsors weekend retreats. MKP's intention is to empower men in their own lives. We ask men to create their own personal mission statements based on their own lives and their own experiences. We don't have dogma or doctrine men must follow - quite the opposite.

Because the weekend tends to be powerful, men often leave the weekend really enthusiastic and excited about their lives. In addition, oftentimes men will come off the weekend and start trusting their gut more. If they are in a marriage that isn't working, they will start looking at the marriage and hopefully try to make their marriage work.

The MKP weekend is powerful and does change men's lives. Oftentimes family members are scared of change. We're all scared of change. And if a marriage is strong, I think it encourages growth and change and honesty.

My two cents,
Tim Batdorf

Not to mention that if you need 16 year + of thearpy from professionals with no relief, bring this to mind. Pretty freaking pathetic! And I would hate to think YOU>>>teach the the children of tomorrow, with all your problems!
Seems the MKP provides you with friends, which you probably would not have if you didn't pay for them!

Quote:

dscat
My background includes:
- Over 16 years of conventional therapy on an almost weekly basis.
- I was paying out-of-pocket for most of that, since my insurance didn't cover the costs.
- I had at least 5 different counselors during that period (I lived in 3 different places). Some were MSW's, some were PhDs; I counseled with both men and women.
- I was struggling with a bunch of issues, including chronic depression and poor self-esteem, and I NEVER experienced what I would call significant relief with any of my counselors. (Yes, I had some temporary relief periodically, but nothing lasting).
- One counselor early on suggested I check out men's groups, but I was extremely resistant to the idea - I really didn't trust that such groups could help me in any way - so I didn't take her advice.

So after years of trying things the conventional way, I finally decided to stop "banging my head against the wall" and try something different. I checked out a couple other approaches, such as Recovery Inc., but found they didn't quite fit for me. Then an acquaintance suggested MKP, and I decided to give it a try.

I got a lot out of MKPs training and have continued to use what I've learned to overcome long-standing issues - bit by bit - over the last 5 years. The quality of my life is enormously better these days!

This confirms that LGATs and other cults are targetting on emotionally unstable and vulnerable people. And they are good at convincing others that it's all good ... for the business that is. Personnaly, I don't trust any of this LGAT nonsense. And I doubt very much about your new self being emotionally stable and well balanced.